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dual

WTF for?

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I considered posting this to the *NIX forum, but I thought the message was more broad. Read on...

I decided to upgrade my main box at work from Win2K to XP. It's free with the site license, and I figured that I should have some experience with Microsoft's latest offering. The tech came and asked if he could take my box for a day or two to perform the upgrade. I said, "Sure. No problem." - all the while patting my spare Linux box - a PentiumPro 200 with 192MB RAM and Red Hat 7.2 running Openbox (thanks, Josh!).

Needless to say, the tech looked at me like I was patting a Commodore PET. He said, "Okaaay" and took the PIII away. Since, I've set up networking, I use encrypted webmail (I could use Pine), I can use StarOffice 5.2 (albeit a little slow), I sync my Palm with pilot-link (in fact, I've written a little script to automate pilot-xfer), and I browse with Galeon. What can't I do? I can do everything every other average user can do. Except I'm doing it on recycled hardware and a $40, if not free, operating system. I'll also argue that my back-up box is more secure and more powerful with the included languages and other GNU tools.

So, what's the big picture? Is it that I'm a nut and a thorn in the side of Computer Support? No. The issue here is the total lack of clear logic, and the corporate rule of the desktop. Granted, a few municipalities and corporations are coming 'round to Open Source, but the strangle-hold of Micro$oft is far from broken.

Arguments like, "People would be lost using Linux" and "We have to have Microsoft Office" are totally unfounded. Most people are already lost when respective Computer Supports perform forced Microsoft upgrades. And Open, Star and CrossOver Office are all great alternatives to Microsoft's office suite. I'll even argue that you could put the latest KDE on the average Win2K user's desktop and tell them that it's XP, and they would never know the difference.

Why the hell should I go back to Windows!? I shouldn't. I proably will, but I shouldn't. Should you?

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Dual I'm not in the career field yet, but I still see this everyday. My current teacher (cisco/network+) is constantly saying how difficult next term will be, when we have the dreaded Linux course! He scares people to death, telling them how everything is command line, and that it's only designed for programmers. Or my personal favorite, "Linux is not a desktop."

Granted, Linux is more command line oriented, and was created by programmers, primarily for programmers. But anyone who's installed mandy 9.x recently will tell you, it's rapidly moving into the desktop field. Personally, I think it's a lack of understanding...perhaps he used Linux back when it first came out and based his judgment off of that, but the little smirks he gives when saying how difficult it is sicken me. "You can't just use your floppy drive, you have to mount it first." Yeah, in the old days...but your typical install of mandrake will mount it automatically. And so what if you do have to mount it, it's one little command!

Needless to say everyone dreads next term, as do I, albeit for different reasons. I know it'll be full of bullshit and inaccurate statements, which will either cause arguments between me and the teacher, or just anger me to no end. And trust me, arguing with the teacher will get you nowhere...even if they have to lie, they'll make sure to win the argument. I'm reminded of the wonderful Miss Wrogg, when she explained how filtering software works, "No, there's an organization of people who visit every website on the net and grade it based on how appropriate it is."

To this day the people in that class believe that's how filtering software works...odd, I always thought the software flagged certain words, which is why a site about "chicken breast" would be blocked...hmm...

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I recently made the switch from windows and jumped right intoo slackware, and its been a charm to use, it is very impressing. BTW I've had shit happen with teachers, I am in a marketing class right now that is based on office applications. We do pamflet design and shit like that, I asked the teacherwhy we use ms office for most of our stuff, and why not openoffice which is free (i also pointed out it would save a whole shitload of money), she blatantly responded that it would be too hard for the pl to learn a new office suite (leaving little to the imagination, this statement underlined the fact that the kids in that class arent the sharpest knives in the drawer). But how could she say that, I mean after that im not even gonna go into linux with her, shel prolly fail me anyway, but I still dont understand why ppl are not willing to try something new, when they clearly know that it would be better, maybe she didnt like the idea of saying that one who she is supposed to teach proved her wrong, maybe she is so ignorant that she actually believes it would be too hard......anyway I hate that class now......

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I still dont understand why ppl are not willing to try something new, when they clearly know that it would be better, maybe she didnt like the idea of saying that one who she is supposed to teach proved her wrong, maybe she is so ignorant that she actually believes it would be too hard......anyway I hate that class now......

Unfortunately, your teachers attitude is far too common. I've seen the same train of thought in a couple of places I worked. People are amazed when I tell them the Word document I just emailed them wasn't written written in Word, but in either Open Office or AppleWorks (depending which machine I'm on). They have no clue that there are viable options. But that's where we come in! ;)

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yeah, with ppl like these in the world we sure as hell have our work cut out for us.......well, I love a challenge anyway, I still want to get ppl to use open source programs, and I try to turn them around, but still most people don't even wanna hear about it, I have the impression that ppl think that becasue its free than its not good quality, like if no money went into it, the there is no qay it can be good for anything, I think this is the biggest prejudice about open source software.

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yeah, with ppl like these in the world we sure as hell have our work cut out for us.......well, I love a challenge anyway, I still want to get ppl to use open source programs, and I try to turn them around, but still most people don't even wanna hear about it, I have the impression that ppl think that becasue its free than its not good quality, like if no money went into it, the there is no qay it can be good for anything, I think this is the biggest prejudice about open source software.

I really think its not a fear of complexity but a fear of change for a lot of people. If you give somebody a linux box as their first computer they will eventually learn to use it and get used to it even though everyone says it is harder.

Linux isn't perfect in a lot of areas (sound creation and editing for example) but that may be because the user base isn't there so there so nobody bothred creating apps for that.

But I have been using linux and really in the community for 5+ years now so I am tired of discussing this and trying to convince anyone. I just do cool things on my desktop and if people see you doing cool things then they might want to try it too. I really think most people have abandoned the idea of Linux world domination, or at least I hope they have. I think it was that attitude that was one of the factors that ruined Loki.

And that is all I have to say about that.

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You hit the nail right on the head. Lots of reasons why it's an uphill battle, but marketing and politics are the biggies.

But *occaionally* you get that one person who bucks the trend. I just got off the phone with a potential new tech support client who, among other things, is looking to start using open source software on his Macs. This guy said has a PhD in physics and programmed in FORTRAN in the '70s, so he definatley has a clue. When I told him he could use just about any *nix app in OS X, I could just about hear him drooling on the other end of the line (at least I hope that's what it was :blink:). So I get to demonstrate some open source stuff in X11 for him next week. I'll probably throw Mandrake on my PowerBook too, just to show that it can be done. :)

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yeah, its a good feeling when you get someone going for linux or open source, its that feeling of accomplishment, that you've done something good for the community.

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Here is my experience. I can't get people to leave windows to go mac, and i had a hell of a time getting my Bro who is a full-time programer to even read about linux. Why? Cause people fear change. I may be one of the only people who stands up and says give me that new shit you got. Because I want to see what it can do and can't do. I want to know what people have to offer me and society. I think that is why I am here. You guys seem to think like me. You all try it out then say what works and doesn't. RIGHT ON :rock:

Well needless to say when I finally got my dick of a bro to try linux he spent 3 pages to tell me how great it was, how he could do everything he wanted and more. Of course having no programing skill myself it went over my head but needless to say Big brother knows better than you Andy. Man brothers get on your nerve sometimes.

well thats all I guess.

Keep it real.

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Here is my experience. I can't get people to leave windows to go mac, and i had a hell of a time getting my Bro who is a full-time programer to even read about linux. Why? Cause people fear change.

Exactamundo. People are creatures of habit. Even more so with their computers.

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........and all this means we are the guinea pigs of the world :) ..............

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It's a thankless job, but somebody's gotta do it. B)

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A big problem is the apps. there is no photoshop for linux. (yea..yea. the GIMP!) But the GIMP is not photoshop. Not to mention flash, or trying to get a flash player installed on linux. Dreamweaver, Quantra is good on linux. I like it, but it's still not dreamweaver.

The second issue with the apps is the loading speed. I can open 2 apps on my XP machine, in the same time it takes to open Mozilla on linux. Users want speed. they don't care if they have to sign their life away to M$. if those apps load fast, they want it.

Some programs there is simply no equivalent for on linux. such as AutoCAD. there are a few CAD apps for linux, but they fall way way short.

I love linux. I use it on all my servers. it runs my web server, file server, and acts as a router/firewall for my network. windows just can't compete with it on the server. But Untill some software companies start porting apps, or I stop doing graphic & web design work. I'll have to stick with Windows. (granted It's all free software to me. ;) )

Now, if it wasn't for warez, I'd be using linux all the time. there is no way I could afford to pay for Xp or all this other stuff.

I'm actually thinking about getting a MAC for my next machine. It will get me away from M$, and it has all the apps i use. Does anyone have any comments on mac's? I won't have the cash for one anytime soon, but i'd like some input on them.

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yeah, if it wasnt for warez, I would've moved to linux a long long time ago.........now im having trouble installing gtk-gnutella :lol:

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All operating systems have their high and low points, and each is best suited for it's own individual task. When I'm using Windows, I feel the need to use applications, but in Linux, I feel the need to create them. But as Linux becomes more user friendly, I think more and more companies will begin porting their products (ie: adobe). And if that happens, those bastards at MS will have an uphill battle on their hands.

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I seriously tink they already have an uphill battle, with linux and warez contributing, so go forth and replicate windows and give it out for free......on second thought, dont do that, do that with linux :D

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Once you go Mac you never go back. Trust me. You get the software you need, you piss off Bill and it looks and feels soooo slick. Sex is important to me and that is why I bought a Mac. Go high price Call girl don't go crack whore. I can hook peeps up with the mac shit yo's. I have a hugh Carracho server. After all I got 1800 gigs of space. Just search for Bob Nino and tell me your from this forum and I can hook you up.

I love my Dual 1.25ghz with 2 gig of DDR ram, superdrive and 23 inch Cinema HD display. sorry I had to brag. :D

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A big problem is the apps.  there is no photoshop for linux.  (yea..yea. the GIMP!)  But the GIMP is not photoshop.  Not to mention flash, or trying to get a flash player installed on linux.  Dreamweaver, Quantra is good on linux. I like it, but it's still not dreamweaver.

The second issue with the apps is the loading speed.  I can open 2 apps on my XP machine, in the same time it takes to open Mozilla on linux.  Users want speed.  they don't care if they have to sign their life away to M$. if those apps load fast, they want it.

Some programs there is simply no equivalent for on linux. such as AutoCAD.  there are a few CAD apps for linux, but they fall way way short.

I love linux. I use it on all my servers. it runs my web server, file server, and acts as a router/firewall for my network.  windows just can't compete with it on the server.  But Untill some software companies start porting apps, or I stop doing graphic & web design work. I'll have to stick with Windows.   (granted It's all free software to me. ;)  )

Now, if it wasn't for warez, I'd be using linux all the time.  there is no way I could afford to pay for Xp or all this other stuff.

I'm actually thinking about getting a MAC for my next machine.  It will get me away from M$, and it has all the apps i use.  Does anyone have any comments on mac's? I won't have the cash for one anytime soon, but i'd like some input on them.

You'll have a hard time finding a bigger Mac evangelist than yours truly. :)

I'm 99% MS free on all my 7 Macs. I only use Entourage for email on my main machine because I've just been too lazy to export my contacts to the Mail app in OS X. I find that all the apps you mentioned just *feel* better. I've tried using Photoshop in Windows, but it just feels clunky and *wrong*.

There's a lot I don't have to deal with: No blue screen's o' death, no BIOS to fuck around with (not you, BiOs, the computer ^_^ ), no security upgrades every other day, and no M$ liscening bullshit. Everything just works. I plug in a wi-fi card, and it just works. Boot off an external firewire drive or CD by just holding down a key. You'll also be able to run just about any *nix app you want. You end up spending less time fighthing your computer and massaging it into doing what you want, and more time USING it and being productive...and having fun! Plus, if you want to play with Linux, there are several good PPC based distros. Setting up a dual (or triple) boot system is a snap. One thing that I'm not sure about is CAD. I know there are CAD programs available for the Mac, but I'm not familiar enough with them to know how they compare to a CAD app on a PC.

I just found out that Al Gore joined the Apple board of directors today. :blink: *scratches head in befuddlement* Oh yeah! He invented the Internet!

And I agree with what you said about Linux apps like the GIMP. It's no Photoshop. But you can do alot with GIMP depending on what you're objectives are, and if you really want/need a good gfx app and you choices are FREE or PIRATED, then GIMP is a good choice to start with. But, doing high-end production work is best left to Photoshop. Apps like GIMP just don't don't suoort the features and protocols (like CMYK and embedded color profiles) that you need to work on that level. Is there an open source page layout app similar to Quark Xpress? Just curious to see how thay would compare.

I've never heard of Quantra, but it sounds like it's web development app like Dreamweaver? I use Dreamweaver just about every day and was wondering if there was an open source equivalent that I could compare. Plus I like the tight integration between DW, Fireworks and Flash. Same with Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign.

All that being said, I've really gotten into trying out some open source stuff. Even though I can't really use much of it (other than maybe OpenOffice) in my day-to-day work, it gives me that same since of exploration and learning that I got when I started playing with computers.

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I love my Dual 1.25ghz with 2 gig of DDR ram, superdrive and 23 inch Cinema HD display. sorry I had to brag. :D

YEAH!?!? well take a peep at this baby:

1.2 gig duron

256 megs of ram

40 gig hdd

tnt2 32 megs

4x cd-rom

floppy drive (that's the centerpiece)

two piece shit speakers

a hdd led that wont light up

15 inch (13 viewable) Orchestra french horn II (it is a monitor made literally in 1994 and still works, I occasionally get a green tint, thats when I have to move the data cable around, it works after that)

loaded with slackware 8.1 and it works like a charm, it's my main machine and I love it :wub: (it cost 280 bucks, free monitor and speakers from a friend)....................sorry had to brag too :roll:

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heres my 2 cents about the whole linux thing:

I keep wanting to get into linux, i have mandrake 8.2 on a cd, ive even installed it (incorrectly though) but my whole thing is why should i make the switch? what does linux offer that windows doesnt? what would i do on linux box? I pride myself on having a pretty brutal gaming Rig. I have both my consoles hooked upto, i can play all the lastest pc games and im not sure i can do that on linux (play pc games that is my tvcard is good to go in linux). is it worth it for me to have linux on a seperate partition? Im not all in support for Microshaft but hell it works, i can play lots and lots of games on it. i dont know. the good news is i may be getting a second rig to put mandrake on soon so i can see wtf is up.

:spam::ninja:

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I for example reserved my better pc (with winblows) for mainly games. For linux and programming I use the one I described earlier, you can play any windows game with an emulator (vmware, wine) but it's bound to be slower since its an emulator, but for the big games (quake3) there are linux ports

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I hear you hacnslash. I don't want to come off all high and mighty but I just got this baby. It's my first personnal comp. All the others where works or families. I am only 25 but it took a while to get what I wanted. So maybe someday you will have a quad P7 8ghz or what ever. But I will still only have this G4. But love is a long term commentment. Not that you don't love your comp but a Mac is a much bigger love affair. :heart:

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I love my Dual 1.25ghz with 2 gig of DDR ram, superdrive and 23 inch Cinema HD display. sorry I had to brag. :D

YEAH!?!? well take a peep at this baby:

1.2 gig duron

256 megs of ram

40 gig hdd

tnt2 32 megs

4x cd-rom

floppy drive (that's the centerpiece)

two piece shit speakers

a hdd led that wont light up

15 inch (13 viewable) Orchestra french horn II (it is a monitor made literally in 1994 and still works, I occasionally get a green tint, thats when I have to move the data cable around, it works after that)

loaded with slackware 8.1 and it works like a charm, it's my main machine and I love it :wub: (it cost 280 bucks, free monitor and speakers from a friend)....................sorry had to brag too :roll:

well i beat everyone

130mhz pentium 1

32 ram

1 gig hdd

4x cd-rom

zip drive

don't know about video ram

and speakers that came with the monitor!!

:D running..... win 3.11 :D

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yeah, I can understand how you can get more attached of a mac, they look asthetically better, and not only that, but the os (X) is just beautiful, I have the aqua theme for kde goin right now, I love the look of osX, but still, I would still choose a linux system for it's bigger potential, and by that I mean the potential of software being written for that platform, more ppl write for linux (i think) than for any other os, because its free, and yeah, I do understand you can run nix apps on osX, and don't get me wrong here, I respect macos more than windows(hell, I respect my ass more than windows (by windows I mean bill gates)). the fact is, I think it would be too easy for me to go to mac, I love it when the os challenges me, and I have to ask and to try 5 million configurations, and then when it finally works theres such a great feeling of accomplishment.

dammit you did beat everyone, not if I would still have my P60 with 16 megs of ram.......

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