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Newbies & Phrack.org

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So yesterday I posted a topic about a book I came across while in the local book shop called Hacking Exposed. As I was reading through the replies to my post, which by the way were verry usefull except for one by a real "educated" (and I use that term loosly) fourm member. In his word exactly he said "Hacking Exposed sucks shit. It has nothing to do with real hacking. It has everything to do with script-kiddie'ing. Fuck it. If you want a book on hacking, check phrack, bitch.".. So after pondering that notion I went over to Phrack .com and downloaded the latest issue and started to read it. After reading their useless nonsense about "BlackHatz & Whithat pussies" and how "The authors did some great work to teach you scum how to take Bill's OS apart." and all of the other crap, I thought I finally got to an informative part, but I was wrong. I had no use for making a pirate radio station, Hacking Radio's, THe Loopback section, making fake ATM cards, nor all the random shout-out's to the t-shirt smuggler, how hosting a webserver should look like, nor did I care who did the ASCII art for that matter. I finally found something worth reading and it was a little redundant most of the time and to far advanced for a newbie hacker to understand, which I am. I think we need something that gives the fundamentals of hacking, not some nutcase explaining how to malicously kill a PC by telling someone who posted a question to go to the run command and type deltree /:C. But like I said before all the post except for that one were verry usefull to me thanks guys/gals... Also, where would a good place to start reading about hacking? Tutorials/Explanations etc... :voteno:

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If you have trouble finding tutorials on hacking that is because of this: There aren't really tutorials for hacking.

Hacking really just consists of a certain skill set each person chooses to have and a mindset for learning and experimentation. One can hack anything, they just need to be open minded, willing to work, and desire to understand.

I assume you meant hacking in relation to computers though, and in that case I would recommend starting with learning a programming language such as C/C++ or Perl. Most people I know who are starting think Perl is more friendly.

Should you want to learn perl here is a nice introduction to the language: http://learn.perl.org/

For future reference: O'reilly is god.

Edit: damn linking verbs

Edited by Davidcopperfield
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phrack can have some very in detail, interesting articles sometimes, however most of it is pretty bleh. O'reilly is indeed god, however the best place for information is yourself. You learn the basics of something, then you yourself find ways to explore it, and find ways to use it that maybe it shouldn't be used. That's the real way to learn

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...I thought I finally got to an informative part, but I was wrong. I had no use for...
You seem very close-minded to me. I find the Phrack articles damn detailed and damn good. Most people who read Phrack aren't always interested in ALL of the subject matter, it's interesting to read about a hack for something, and idea for something, a different way of doing something. That's what hacking is about. I for one, read Phrack because I am interested in all of technology, not just phones or computers.
I had no use for making a pirate radio station, Hacking Radio's, THe Loopback section, making fake ATM cards, nor all the random shout-out's to the t-shirt smuggler, how hosting a webserver should look like, nor did I care who did the ASCII art for that matter.

Then what exactly do you have use for ? You have to know exactly what you want before you can get it.

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Just to add my $.02, I too have often found phrack rather tedious to read through. It's not that I don't enjoy the subject matter, it's that it gets so detailed that you're left struggling to sort out the main facts from the added fluff. Honestly, there have been tons of GREAT articles in there...but unless you're the most obsessed coder on the planet, I doubt you want to pore through 23 pages dedicated to a single function.

Then again, phrack IS geared to programmers (at least it is now anyway, there was a time when they had phreaking articles, and plenty of lame anarchy stuff...but just like Kevin Bacon starring in Friday the 13th, they like to forget about that now). If you're just starting out, you won't find phrack to be of much help. Once you've moved past the basics of programming, you'll find it to be a wealth of information...but like I said, sometimes it's a bit too much.

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I found phrack useful some of the time, but I definitely liked the older versions better. The problem is that someone starting out is only going to understand part of the info. Of course that's like anything else. :) It's like Erickson's book, Hacking the Art of Exploitation that someone mentioned. It's an excellent book if you're advanced enough to get the full benefit. It's good enough though that I'd suggest reading it and getting what you can, learning more about programming, then going back and re-reading to see what else makes sense later.

PF

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Phrack is great, but it's uber-complicated for nubie kids. My reccomendation for a n00b would be to learn *nix, learn perl, C, and assembly. O'reilly has some GREAT books about this. Also, knowledge of TCP/IP is essential. Erickson's book is excellent. Ankit Fadia has also written some good sh1t. Hacking exposed is actually OK, but erickson's book is better. Check out this too, it helped me loads: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html . If you learn all this, you're still not a hacker. You're just really smart. To be a hacker you need to experiment and learn new things. Don't forget to be up on newer technologies, not just generalized and older techniques.

Oh, and when phrack says things like "Whitehat pussies" and you scum, they're joking. Unless you write to them asking for basic hacking tutorials, then they're really pissed at you.

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Well, I read all the liinks that you guys have sent and decided to try my hand at programming in Python..lol here comes the fun part :help: lol

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P.S - Thank you all for leadiing me down the right path... ~Joe

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Woot! Python is always a good choice. I wouldn't say that, "Hacking: The Art of Exploitation" is really a good choice as it assumes a working knowledge of c. How many newbs out there know c, anyone?? anyone?? :) HTAOE is good for intermediates. If you liked it, I would suggest the Shellcoders Handbook. Very, very good. and the most important question of this reply:

My reccomendation for a n00b would be to learn *nix, learn perl, C, and assembly

Why do people make the comment about learning *nix(Or more appropriately, a unix like operating system). Realistically, it doesn't matter which OS you use, at all. I used to think the same way, 6 years and after 6 years of *nix yes, I know how to break security on most any mainstream *nix, yes it is my OS of choice, (Hell, I haven't used that Gates guys OS in 2 years), but it hasn't helped me become a "hacker" anymore than the bagel I had for breakfast (And I'm not even approaching the eternal argument of a hacker being something you are, not something you become, I'm just speaking in the technology hacking sense) I've seen some insane Windows hackers, and they seriously deserve respect no matter what OS they choose. Is *nix a good learning experience either way, HELL YES!!! Is it a prerequisite for being an uberl33t haxor, definetly not. Just look at Stank, he's the AS/400 guy. :)

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"Hacking: The art of exploitation" is a great book, but as mentioned above, you need a working knowledge of C. there are plenty of newbie hackers with a working knowledge of C.

voodooHAL, I agree completely. however, in my experience, it has just been a lot easier to understand how OSes work, and how to interact with them through linux OSes.

good choice on python. that was my first language after ti-basic. happy hacking.

btw, while phrack may not be geared to newbies (and why should it be??), it does have a handful of articles on the fundamentals, like 49-14 on BOs.

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I know C and read through Hacking: Art of Exploration and thought it rather good, and so I think I will get Shellcoder's Handbook as VooduHal suggested. I was wondering if there are any other more intermediate or advanced books to look out for?

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Phrack is:

- hacking

- phreaking

- spying

- carding

- cybernetics

- radio

- electronics

- forensics

- reverse engineering

- cryptography

- anarchy

- conspiracy

- world news

Thats from their site, so yeah, they tend to be pretty broad on their topics.

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edited by StankDawg: Account cancelled for breaking the only hardfast rule in this forum. :rules:

The 1 rule of this forum is NO FLAMING and the punishment is clearly labelled. It is not a joke people. :nono: :

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edited by StankDawg:  some people only know how to flame to cover their own inadequacies.

is that enough for your piece of shit eyes?

How about we refrain from the flaming? Is it really that necessary. At least he is trying to get decent information. You don't need to put him down for asking. Isn't that why we are all here in the first place?

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edit by StankDawg:  not worth repeating.
edit by StankDawg:  not worth repeating.

First of all, I don't remember Phrack.org a choice in religon for me, Second, my "Piece of shit eyes" gave you the right to sit here and flame me in the name of free speech. I spent the last 18 months in Iraq as Sniper support. I love the military and was proud to go when my country needed me, But I can tell you that I didn't come home to have someone like you flame me when I use MY freedom of speech for opposing an idea/thought or in this case a website... :nono:

edit by StankDawg: Dont get pulled in by these trolls. I clean the boards up when i get home from work or one of the other mods will clean them up. Flaming is almost non-existant here, but sometime it creeps in temporarily. Dont let it bother you.

Edited by StankDawg
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since you're too much of a dipshit to know that phrack is your god

is that enough for your piece of shit eyes?

First of all, I don't remember Phrack.org a choice in religon for me, Second, my "Piece of shit eyes" gave you the right to sit here and flame me in the name of free speech. I spent the last 18 months in Iraq as Sniper support. I love the military and was proud to go when my country needed me, But I can tell you that I didn't come home to have someone like you flame me when I use MY freedom of speech for opposing an idea/thought or in this case a website... :nono:

well, i'm certainly glad that our armed forces are busy securing our rights by fighting this war... uh... oh wait. :)

is that what you say whenever anyone gives you shit?

and what makes you so sure that m00ingf0rm3 is from the US?

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lattera is from a little known place called elitistville, he lives there with elimist and vlad, and they use bsd and say RTFM and STFU N00B all the time

Edited by jedibebop
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Why do i get the feeling this thread is turning away from the topic of Phrack and molding into a flame war and a tense political debate?

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Why do i get the feeling this thread is turning away from the topic of Phrack and molding into a flame war and a tense political debate?

your right.

PHRACK OWNS! :)

Edited by neuro
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OK people, several accounts have been closed for the needless flaming. Answer the question and talk like intelligent people or STFU.

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I don't consider myself a noob anymore, but I still don't understand and am not interested in some of the stuff in phrack, and I love most of it. I also respect their look and the fact that the magazine has been running for so long and remains 100% free. I think I would feel like I've given back fully to the IT world if I ever got an article published in phrack.

-elchoaro

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Interestingly, what you refer to as "explaining how to malicously kill a PC by telling someone who posted a question to go to the run command and type deltree /:C" had me laughing hyserically a couple of days ago. I mean, the guy didn't even know what ".tar.hz" is, AND was to lazy to google it! Loopback has provided me with lots of laughs (and the expense on n00bs). Dig this:

I need to be a haX0r says my mUm.  bcuse I jerk off too much and I need

somthing better to do wiht the 2 hours my mom lets me have to use the

FaMily winbook.  My Unckle billlyfish (his fucking hacksor name) told me

that if I brake N2 nasa and steal the new rockit blueprints then give them

to you so we/you or us/me can get together all of the 0day hackers (im not

gay...just curious) and fly off to amsterdam where Heroin is legal that you

will give me a hard copy set of Phrack issues 1-50.  Piss on them who dont

like shit. lol. hahaha lamers suck.  I am only 27 but I should be sneaking

out of my moms basement soon...like tonight to go to an internet cafe to

masturbate because my 2 hours of Pleasureful winbook time are almost over.

If you can muster up the fucking strengh tell me how to brake into nasa so

i can claim me prize mate I would be as gracious as a dog with peanut

butter Spo0ned up his asS.

    ( Actually you sounded quite smart until the last 2 sentences )

PS If you make funny out of me then I promise I wont send the rocketshit

planz to you and I will keep them for myself and take all of the hardcopys

out of the back of that mini-gurlish SUV when i gets to holland.  Dig.  By

the way,  after we work out a deal, you can send me my hard copy set

through my paypal account.  (I have the biggest eshop on geocities...)

    ( Fortunately, it's over, you started to become boring )

Wow. :ahole: :usuck: :ahole: :usuck:

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