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profetas

Plan 9

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Is plan 9 Unix or Not?

I will post some good info later on "when I get home"

Profetas

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Developed by the people who devised UNIX, i.e. Bell Labs, Plan 9 takes OS development back into the realm of research. While UNIX can be said to be a research tool the OS principles remain largely the same throughout all developments. Plan 9 (the name is taken from the title of the Worst Film Ever Made, Ed Wood's Plan 9 From Outer Space) is an attempt to work on the concept of operating system from the ground up, reworking the whole idea using modern concepts and technology.

Key features that distinguish Plan 9 from other Unix-like systems include;

    - Rio: Rio is the window system and the first thing you will see when you boot your computer.

    - Acme: Acme is an extended UI that is a hybrid of window system, editor and shell, achieving much of the functionality of Emacs and its clones.

    - Plumber: Plumber is the behind-the-scenes combinatorial engine of Plan9. It offers such UNIX functionality as piping and other program flow controls.

    - PQ: A query application for the native "implicit relational database".

    - Troff: A version of the UNIX original, updated for Unicode.

    -  Total File Representation: Everything in Plan 9 is represented as a file, unlike UNIX which only partially implements this feature.

Theres obviously some major problems with this:

1 - Not UNIX, so UNIX software doesn't work with it

2 - [Almost] no programs for the thing

3 - Forced to use a GUI

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Just because it uses pieces of BSD code (as profetas stated in his email to stank) doesn't mean that it's a unix. Virtually every modern OS has borrowed somthing from BSD. Yes, even MS Windows.

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as profetas stated in his email to stank)

I wish I could.

I don't have all that knowledge, I just read it. and I don't think that the developers of 4.4BSD are wrong.

I read some txt of plan 9, They just don't say how it originated, they say what Plan 9 is, what is the difference between Plan 9 and Unix, as the quote above. I have found 2 web sites about the Unix history which also state that Plan 9 is from V10 Unix.

But I won't post until I have a deeper look.

Just because it uses pieces of BSD code

nop, to use the code is one thing to use the idea is other.

And I don't remember reading that Plan 9 uses BSD code, but I will research a bit more before I can state my position.

Yes, even MS Windows.

could you get us some ref?

Edited by profetas
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Are you aware of the BSD license and what it allows?

Also, just as an tangible example that I remember seeing somewhere, take a look at the strings in the windows xp ftp.exe. You'll see a BSD copyright notice.

[edit] and.. why the fuck would a copyright notice be a string constant? I would think they would attribute copyright in the form of a comment... *shrug*

[edit2] removed massive inline quote

Edited by greystatic
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profetas, didn't stank read your email on binrev radio discussing that plan9 was unix because it used bsd4.4 code? maybe i am just mistaken.

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...for another example, winsock 1 is an implementation of berkley style sockets, and i believe they gave bsd props in some of their developer docs. although winsock 2 is a complete rewrite, and has been the standard since windows 98.

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...for another example, winsock 1 is an implementation of berkley style sockets, and i believe they gave bsd props in some of their developer docs. although winsock 2 is a complete rewrite, and has been the standard since windows 98.

Wrong; Microsoft had to publicly announce/confirm a bit ago that XP uses a BSD based internet stack, also in windows 2004 (according from what I am told by a NT admin)they stole mount points from bsd/linux.

Edited by White_Raven
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all i know is the developer docs for winsock said it was bsd based, and some of the docs for winsock2 said it was a rewrite and said nothing about bsd

although i haven't checked any of the recent ones, this is old info from at least 3 years ago

Edited by replax
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Back to the topic

profetas, didn't stank read your email on binrev radio discussing that plan9 was unix because it used bsd4.4 code? maybe i am just mistaken.

No, I don't know we don't know I read in my book which is the Implementation and Design of 4.4BSD Operating System

at the begin the give a Unix history chapter and they claim what I sent to Stank.

That Plan 9 was originated from V10 Unix

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If you read http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/sys/doc/9.html this might help you. If you still can't figure it out... give up. I add, get a box and install plan9 and see for yourself. Try to use it like you would UNIX and you will soon be fustrated that it is NOT functioning like a UNIX box. IIRC in the email that profetas sent stank the author was illustrating sequences of UNIX versions THEN finished with plan9. Plan9 is a n OS built from the 'ground up'. Hence a new design all together, NOT built on UNIX. yes, some things were adopted <i.e. ls,cp,mv,cd> other things polished or redone. Just because it has a command line, and made by the makers of unix does NOT make it a UNIX clone. I don't mean to get on a soap box and rant.All I am saying is this:

Don't judge a book by it's cover.

If you want to know something about anything, goto the source.

Don't take anyones word for anything until youve tried it for yourself.

http://cm.bell-labs.com/plan9dist/download.html

Give it a try.

-zer0dB

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plan 9 isn't like a regular operating system, it's UNIX based, however loosely you want to use that phrase, but it's ment for distributed computing, which is why it's the way it is

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issues, not just kernel-resident ones, that we felt UNIX addressed badly. Plan 9 has new compilers, languages, libraries, window systems, and many new applications. Many of the old tools were dropped, while those brought along have been polished or rewritten.

Brought along from what?

rewritten? from which source?

as usual they avoid the real origin of Plan 9.

well here is another place that claims that Plan 9 cames from the V systems

Plan9 is a n OS built from the 'ground up'

I couldn't find this claim at the reference you gave.

Don't take anyones word for anything until youve tried it for yourself.

that just show that your are acting emotionally.

Marshall Kirk McKusic is a Computer Scientis at the Berkeley Computer Systems he implemented the 4.2BSD fast file system and a key person on the Development of 4.3BSD and 4.4BSD

Keith BosticPrincipal architect of the 2.10BSD and the author of the famous VI editor

Michael J. Karels is the Vice Pesident of Engineering at Berkeley Software Design and the principal programmer of the 2.9BSD and

John S Quarterman is the author of The Matrix: Computer Network and Conferencing Systems Worldwide and the coauthor of UNIX, POSIX

If these highly skilled people are “anyone” for you I can;t say anything.

Don't judge a book by it's cover.

No I judge a book by its content and author.

Don't take anyones word for anything until youve tried it for yourself.

hum, maybe this is how you got your conclusion.

Plan 9 is claimed to be the processor of Unix, developed at the same place from the same people. Around the middle of the 90s, meaning that Unix had been developed about 20 years, I don't see how an operating system written by the same people could ever be better that 20 years of Unix in 3 years of written from scratch Plan 9. nor why no source code from a well mature OS would be re-used maybe they had a lot of free time.

Well I do think you are wrong and here are some references that has been found

http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/plan9.html

http://www.levenez.com/unix/history.html#08

Plan 9  While not, strictly speaking, a Unix variant, Plan 9 generates a lot of interest in the Unix community. Plan 9 is what UnixPorting would be running if all Unix-based operating systems were to suddenly disappear.

http://www.levenez.com/unix/history.html#08

a non-unix OS timeline

http://firedrake.org/paddy/images/non-unix...tory_0.3.12.pdf

I could not find plan 9 here

Well maybe you could report to the developers of Plan 9 that there is a book claiming that Plan 9 hasn't been written from the ground up

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