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LiF3L3SS

New + Questions

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Hello All,

I have been messing around with computers for a good amount of time now, but was more influenced by Web / Design. I am a graphic designer taking up Multimedia and Design in College, but am soon switching to Computer Information Technology. I have a great understanding and can read / write HTML code as most of you prolly can. You can flame me all you want for being a noobie, I would have to say its part of the tradition. About the only thing I can do is a basic Search - SQL Injection on a Nuke and crack hash using an MD5 site.... Thats about as far as my skills go, I know terrible.

I've always wanted to learn to code, and have a fresh install of VB-2010 Studio. I can get just about any software / ebook I need, but I'm just looking for the direction. All I am really asking is the direction to be pointed to start, and I will go from there asking small questions along the way. Seeing this forum as sort of a Very Smart Frat for example, I am a pledger, so do as you feel, but help show the way. I would love to learn to code, but what I want to code I have no idea. There are so many different types of languages, and from what I understand, once you have a basic understanding of a good language, you will grasp many others fast. Many people tell me to start in C, c#, or VB. I am here to ask what language to start with, and seeing that I am a total noobie to it, can someone point me to the first book I should start with.

I am not asking for much, but all help is greatly appreciated.

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Dont be afraid of being new, we were all there once :tongue: and I dont think anyone on these forums will flame you for wanting to learn (besides, it's against the rules to flame in Nubie HQ).

My advice on learning to program would be to decide on a language and get a good book. It's easy when you start to get as many books as possible and planning to read them all but I've found that it tends to distract. I would often change book when things got to difficult and would end up doing variables and loops over and over.

IMO the language you start with isnt too important, however each has its own advantages and disadvantages. I first stated with BASIC which was great for concepts but a bit too dated now. Java was the first language I learnt enough to develop in. It's relativity easy, useful in the real world and cross platform. C is my prefered language but can be a little difficult to start with but not impossible. I would suggest not using C unless you know basic programming concepts such as loops, variables, functions etc. C is also not object orientated which may or may not affect your choice. Also, stay away from C++. Its much more than "C with classes" as a lot of novice programmers seem to think.

A lot of people suggest starting with a scripting language such as Python or Ruby. I like Python (never tried Ruby) but I prefer languages with a C like syntax. YMMV.

C# is (from what I understand, I have very limited experience in C#) similar to Java in terms of ease of use but has the advantage of being developed for use with the .NET framework. If you want to develop Windows apps then this is probably the way to go but be aware that C# really is a Windows language (you can run it on alternative platforms but really its for Windows) .

Unless you find something awesome I would stay away from online tutorials to start with. A lot of information is either wrong, dated or not easy to understand. A good book will usually be of much higher quality.

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I appreciate it bro,

Would you possibly have any good E-Books to start me out with Java or C#? And basically which would you prefer me to start out with? I understand how switching books could be very frustrating and confusing, and that I am not going to do. I want a good solid base to start out with so I can get into the swing of things. Basically should I find a good book or point me in the direction of a good book for C# or Java? Also are these coded using specific software's or just like notepads? This is about how clueless I am.

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Java or C#, its up to you I guess. I think either choice would be OK assuming you didnt want to start with a scripting language.

I cant really suggest a good book (i'm sure some others probably could but I haven't read that type of book in a long time) but i've found that one beginner programming book tend to be as good as the next. The hard thing is finding good books for the next stage. I would probably check out a local library or look on Amazon for the top recommended.

Also are these coded using specific software's or just like notepads? This is about how clueless I am.

Do you mean writing programs? The basic idea is to create a text document of the code, compile it, run it. An IDE is available for most languages (such as Eclipse or netbeans for Java or Visual studio for C#) which helps manage the program, files and can help with syntax errors etc. When writing smaller programs I tend to just use a text editor (for Windows I use notepad++ which supports colour coding, side-by-side view, regex search and lots more) and the command line for running the compiler. The java SDK needs to be downloaded, installed and setup to develop Java apps. I think visual studios is all that is needed for C#.

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I have Visual Studio 2010, so that should be good for just about everything. There is many really cool features, most of me having no clue lol. I get confused with much of it, until I'm pointed into the direction. You really threw me off when you said scripting, as if I understand the difference lol. I'm not sure what scripting is / does. I get lost with this stuff easily until shown.

I picked up web / html very quickly when I worked with a buddy of mine on a site. He codes HTML / PHP and some other, but he does not live here anymore. He basically showed me some very basic things with HTML and I picked it up quickly. It's just where to start with much of it that I get lost. I appreciate all your help and will shortly be looking for a good JAVA book to start with, or c#. I appreciate all the tips, and if you do happen to think of anything else let me know.

Thanks Again Bro,

LiF3#L3SS

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A scripting language is one which interpreted (I guess this would be the easiest description, however Java and C# are interpreted to some degree to (or at least they were, JIT compiling is being used more in Java now)). This means you write the code and another program reads it and does stuff. This is different from a compiled language as a compiled language, such as C, produces a executable program which is run natively. PHP is a scripting language. You write PHP code and the PHP interpreter goes off and reads the code and performs the actions. The advantage of scripting languages is that they can be easier to use, quicker to debug and less error prone but tend to be much slower than compiled code. Given todays computers, speed of code is less of an issue than speed of development.

Java and C# rest in a weird middle ground. When a Java program is compiled it gets turned into "bytecode" which is then read by the Java Virtual Machine (the reason you need to install Java on a computer to even run Java apps). The JVM then takes the bytecode and translates it to machine code. The same thing with C#.

If you're having trouble knowing where to start I would either get a book ASAP (maybe on of those "for dummies" books? I know they suck but they're pretty easy to read) or try and find some beginner tutorials online. Maybe check youtube or something and then get a book when you can. The actual language used isnt so important when starting out so just get on and do it :)

Edit:

I feel like im talking alot but not giving any actual resources. I'll try and find some good links and post them here.

Edit 2:

If C# is really where you want to go then check out this link http://stackoverflow.com/questions/46048/what-is-the-best-book-to-learn-c for some book suggestions

http://diveintopython.org/ seems to be good for python although it is dated. The concepts are likely to be the same but the latest version of Python will be slightly different. Of course you could just install an older version of python.

Edited by phr34kc0der
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Yeah don't get too focused on the language, the biggest difference I see between them is some are procedural (programs runs top to bottom) and some are object-orientated (you make 'things' aka objects, such as a car object, which comprises of 4 wheel objects, one steering wheel object an so on).

I would ask, is this a long term goal? Or you just have some ideas you want to put together fast?

A loose separation could be desktop programs (C/C++/C#, or website type programs (PHP, SQL).

Either way, pick one and read the first few chapters of a book you like. The concepts will be pretty much the same in any intro book, loops, arrays, variables etc.

I went with C++ because I read you could do pretty much anything with it, and whilst hard at first, picking up other languages would be comparatively easy after wards. I knew no programming, so any choice was going to be hard. I don't regret it, as it's a long-term thing for me.

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Edit:

I feel like im talking alot but not giving any actual resources. I'll try and find some good links and post them here.

Please do not feel that way at all. I enjoy it bro. I really would like to learn so any advice from anyone whom knows this information I am requesting is of use to me. I have really nothing to give in return other then Design. I'm a fairly talented designer, so if you ever need anything for that end let me know.

Edit 2:

If C# is really where you want to go then check out this link http://stackoverflow...book-to-learn-c for some book suggestions

http://diveintopython.org/ seems to be good for python although it is dated. The concepts are likely to be the same but the latest version of Python will be slightly different. Of course you could just install an older version of python.

I appreciate it. I will check this out in a little while. I'm going to run over to Borders Books after work and see what they have in stock. I will say one thing... I'm glad I finally found a website with some pretty cool coders / hackers / programmers / etc, usually you end up on hack team websites filled with assholes. I am actually switching my major in college to Computer information Technology so this will be a long term thing for me. I really enjoy learning new things, and the reason I really want to learn to code my own software or participate in helping others or working on projects with others is b/c of my background in design. I would love to be able to create my own software and create the design interfaces as well. I have created many design interfaces for software of all different types, but now I would like to start learning how to code myself.

I appreciate every bit of help you fellas are offering.

Thanks,

LiF3#L3SS

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My 2 cents: It's always easier to find a tool for a job, than a job for a tool. Instead of picking a language, pick a project. I always find it easier to learn a language, technology, etc when you have a purpose/goal. When I first started as a network/sys admin I needed to automate tasks. So, I learned bash and perl. When I needed a web interface to a few sql servers, I learned php. As a windows admin, I learned VBscript and VB.net to interact with Active Directory, XP clients, and exchange servers.

A good example would be keeping an inventory of your movies. You need a database that holds items like title, Year it was made, actors. Then you need a way to put data in and display data. So you can write a php/html page to input data, and one to display data.

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My 2 cents: It's always easier to find a tool for a job, than a job for a tool. Instead of picking a language, pick a project. I always find it easier to learn a language, technology, etc when you have a purpose/goal. When I first started as a network/sys admin I needed to automate tasks. So, I learned bash and perl. When I needed a web interface to a few sql servers, I learned php. As a windows admin, I learned VBscript and VB.net to interact with Active Directory, XP clients, and exchange servers.

A good example would be keeping an inventory of your movies. You need a database that holds items like title, Year it was made, actors. Then you need a way to put data in and display data. So you can write a php/html page to input data, and one to display data.

This is good advice, but maybe not for someone who is just starting out. Once the basics are understood then switching between the best languages for a specific project is trivial.

I have really nothing to give in return other then Design. I'm a fairly talented designer, so if you ever need anything for that end let me know.

Heh, always wished I was better at design and graphics. Since most the things I create are for personal use I tend to skip the "pretty looks" phase and just use the command line. It always ends up being way more ugly and unintuitive that it should :dry:

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I actually picked up a Starter Book for Visual Basic 6. I know its a little older, but a friend of mine is going to start teaching me some things. He told me to actually start with vb.net or something like that, but he gave me a Visual Basic 6 book, and said start with this to get the basic understanding. He actually had a lot to do with coding Sharepoint with Microsoft. He used to work for them, but now owns his own company and has quite a few patons. So he is going to be giving me alot of pointers along the way.

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Although i'd avoid VB (especially VB6) it might be useful to have someone to actually help you though the tricky parts until you understand the concepts. If so then I say go for it :biggrin:

From what I understand VB.NET is a complete overhaul from earlier versions and the .NET framework is used is C#, visual C++ and other languages as well so its useful to learn for Windows programming. The .NET framework is also useful for web based stuff if that interests you.

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Hes' really into the stuff, and he defiantly knows what he is doing so hopefully I'll be able to get some pointers from him as well along the way. He worked for Microsoft for a number of years, and codes / programs alot of shit, plus has quite a few pattens for some things, so hopefully I can get a good jump start on it. i will refer to here as well for questions.

I appreciate all the help.

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