phr34kc0der

Wardriving

95 posts in this topic

well i guess the pcm may freak out because even if it can tell that hydrogen is fuel it probably wont be able to figure out that the hydrogen is a 2.1 fuel and not a 15.1 like gas so it could or could not show that too much air is coming in and shoot more gas in with the fuel injector. i was going to compress the hydrogen/oxygen at home with a geared down/reinforced pump so i coould get liquid hydrogen/oxygen in propane tanks (yes i know it is dangerous) and use beefy internal regulator's as to limit the pressure to really low somewhat 1-14psi. use internal so it doesnt shoot out hydrogen and blow up. or you can just run electrolysis in the car and run the output into airline past the filter.

WTF?!? You can do all that but you have trouble with capital letters and commas?

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well i guess the pcm may freak out because even if it can tell that hydrogen is fuel it probably wont be able to figure out that the hydrogen is a 2.1 fuel and not a 15.1 like gas so it could or could not show that too much air is coming in and shoot more gas in with the fuel injector. i was going to compress the hydrogen/oxygen at home with a geared down/reinforced pump so i coould get liquid hydrogen/oxygen in propane tanks (yes i know it is dangerous) and use beefy internal regulator's as to limit the pressure to really low somewhat 1-14psi. use internal so it doesnt shoot out hydrogen and blow up. or you can just run electrolysis in the car and run the output into airline past the filter.

WTF?!? You can do all that but you have trouble with capital letters and commas?

yeah that uses the other side of my brain, and dont complain to me. i still get b's in english, which is why we need a new eduacation system. they actually give me b's and i type the same for essasy as i type on here.

its not all that hard lols, you just run electrolsys at home with a density filter so the whole at the top will be hydrogen and the bottom/lower one will be oxygen use 2 pump type compressors with the motor at a really low gear ratio so it has alot of torque. make the regulator for oxgen let out double the pressure so you keep 2.1 and it will burn in your car with the gas saving you money.

Edited by dinscurge
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That's so dangerous it's not even worth the gas you'll save doing it.

Gas is 14.7,not 15.

I've never looked at or touched compressing it,only electolysis on the fly.

With that much excess incoming fuel you will need to do something with the injection like you say,reprogramming could do it.

Hydrogen severly degrades all known metals,the entire reason it hasn't been toted as a fuel since it degrades the holding tanks in such short time.

You'll be eating the engine from the inside out slowly(or not so slowly in the amounts I think your speaking of).

Don't use aluminum heads/intake manifolds,even stainless valves will degrade pretty quick i'll bet.

It sounds interesting what your doing,but honestly it sounds dumber to do it than it sounds interesting to hack it.

I hope to god you don't blow yourself up-Darwins' committee has enough applicants.

If you do it and find away around the storage issues,you'll be a millionaire though.

Alot easier to clock the alternator to massive voltage/amperage and have a large generator unit I would think.

Sure as hell be alot safer-coming from my limited knowledge of the stuff.

Edited by DefPlay
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That's so dangerous it's not even worth the gas you'll save doing it.

Gas is 14.7,not 15.

I've never looked at or touched compressing it,only electolysis on the fly.

With that much excess incoming fuel you will need to do something with the injection like you say,reprogramming could do it.

Hydrogen severly degrades all known metals,the entire reason it hasn't been toted as a fuel since it degrades the holding tanks in such short time.

You'll be eating the engine from the inside out slowly(or not so slowly in the amounts I think your speaking of).

Don't use aluminum heads/intake manifolds,even stainless valves will degrade pretty quick i'll bet.

It sounds interesting what your doing,but honestly it sounds dumber to do it than it sounds interesting to hack it.

I hope to god you don't blow yourself up-Darwins' committee has enough applicants.

If you do it and find away around the storage issues,you'll be a millionaire though.

Alot easier to clock the alternator to massive voltage/amperage and have a large generator unit I would think.

Sure as hell be alot safer-coming from my limited knowledge of the stuff.

yeah i knew it was close to 15psi i forgot 1 atmosphere, just not sure how much pressure electrolsys creates im sure its less than an atmosphere though. i think plastic would work not sure which type just a shell around the inside of the tank so it wouldnt make it really weak. would basically just regulate it down to really low pressure and it would last for a very long time i mean you could get over 200 atmospheres of gas in the tank so about 200xthe storage capacity. id rather just use a turbine like in the abrams just having trouble figuring out the exuahst beacuse it would be very hot so you wouldnt want to put it down/back as it would wreck the road and people are idiots and drive to close to you so possibly melting stuff ect, up like in a semi would work with a flapper to stop water running in but if you were burning a g.t.l. fuel it would not work because it would sorta build up water, but then you can burn like any gas thats flammable, propane natural gas, hydrogen, gasoline, acetelyn, alcohol, methanol, butane, pretty much anything besides diesel beacuse diesel is high compression/heat so you would have to burn something else then switch to diesel while its hot. i hope i dont blow up myself/other stuff as 200- wow 272.1 atmospheres at 4kpsi if im right that would be like 272 liters of hydrogen in a 1litre tank it would probably be liquid at 4000psi but yeah 272 atmospheres of hydogen+oxygen=big ass explosion of liquid oxygen+hydrogen couldnt guess how big it would be but mabey a block or more of like blast radius.

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Not 14.6 PSI.

14.6 parts per 1 part fuel/air

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How about getting one of those signs Pizza Delivery Drivers have on their car? Just etch in, "24hr pizza delivery". They are always pulled over looking for directions.

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hmm when had class on small motors it was 15.1 idk, but it is about 14.6 psi for sealevel

edit: ^ yeah tha'd work

edit: thats what happens when you go to school they tell you whats wrong :D

Edited by dinscurge
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yeah,sea level is about ~15psi.

I assumed you were talking about AFR.

Baro/Manifold pressure are variables,AFR is generally a constant.

Stoichometric for gasoline is 14.6 AFR,Hydrogen is wayyy different i'm sure.

Edited by DefPlay
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IMO, Wardriving is played out.... It used to be cool 3-5 years ago but I honestly do not see the point driving around wasting your gas looking for random access points. If you really want to [break into/break encryption] of a wireless network, then target a specific network and mess with it discreetly. As for dealing with cops, I doubt they can confiscate your laptop without a warrant/court order (not to mention 99.99% cops don't know shit about computers, so very easy to make up some bullshit story). Usually these statements will get you out of a conversation with the police if delivered correctly:

Officer: blahblahblah

You: Are you detaining me?

Officer: No, I am just asking a question blah blah

You: So if you are not detaining me, am I free to go?

Officer: no

You: so you ARE detaining me?

Officer: No

You: So I am free to go?

Standard question loop.

Some police officers may take this offensivly though and take more action, just those actions may interest suspision and give a near reason to search you and your car. If there's nothing and he is pissy at your statements etc, he may call for another officer for backup and until they can figure out what to do, eventually it may lead to you going on your way or it can lead to the confiscation of your laptop, etc...

you can probley say they don't have the right to do that but I have not witnessed a cop follow the law for some time now. they can easily call up a judge in middle of the night who would be pissed to be woken up and tell him whatever he wants who may or may not give him the authority to search you, detain you, etc...

godamn i sipt coffee in my work keyboard and all the keys are messed up

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yeah,sea level is about ~15psi.

I assumed you were talking about AFR.

Baro/Manifold pressure are variables,AFR is generally a constant.

Stoichometric for gasoline is 14.6 AFR,Hydrogen is wayyy different i'm sure.

think hydrogen is 2 hydrogen 1 part oxygen as you can burn it in a car withoutt messing up the gas afr alot. i just need to figure out what pressure to set/make regulators at kinda have to quess though as cannot just vacume out the air and not the water, im guessin its really low like <15psi because it does expand when you do electrolsys but its pure hydrogen/oxygen so it may just be lower density then air which means it would go up from the water anyways basically just have to test it with a low presure system like 20psi.

^ atleast it wasnt a laptop?

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Fuel pressure generally runs in the 35-45PSI range depending,all vehicle vary.

Injectors/nozzles are dependant on a pressure constant for adequate delivery calculations.

Primarily this is done with a pressure constant while pulse the injector.

Flow volume is dependant upon pressure delivery.

Calculations are available for gasoline engines taking into account hp,pressure and injector sizing.

First step would be determining if you are going to use pressure or nozzle/injector pulse as the control variable i'm thinking.

A rudimentary system could be made on a constant generating system that utilizes the throttle positioning sensor as a control component for the voltage regulation on the generator.

This would need to be hard programmed as a speed density system though i'm pretty sure for experimenting so you have less variables.

Unfortunately air density would be the largest variable,which would change daily or where i'm at hourly usually so no true constant could be maintained.

A closed loop speed density system using wideband 02 sensors could be devised i'm sure,would just need some creative programming dependent on large alterations of the 02 sensor switching points to compensate for the hydrogen fuel.

There are so many more points that would need to be covered that this doesn't even scratch the surface.

In short,it could be done and it wouldn't be extremely hard utilizing currently available equipment (most of which I have here) but i've yet to really start getting into it as I have so many projects already it's insane.

However,if your interested in theorizing a bit more i'm game.

Let's start a different thread though,we've jacked this one enough.

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Funny r4p1d, as I usually see people texting on their CrackBerries while still driving. Anyway, I figured you would have said something about your trump card in wardriving. r4p1d has an interesting strategy of putting Linux on innocent-looking consumer devices with wireless connections. Then, he can use them to do at least part of the wardriving. Of course, I'm not giving specifics to ensure continued deniability, but let's say nobody would look at any of these and think they would be used for that. Until they turn them on and navigate a bit, that is.

As for that part, r4p1d, I got an idea for you. Even though this isn't one of your toys, I'm going to use iPod and Linux as an example. Lets say someone was rolling with Linux on an iPod. The second someone turned it on they would know it was different. What if, though, it appeared broken until a certain action was performed? When first loaded, any of the consumer devices will show an error screen of some sort or a splash screen that never ends. If anyone inspects it, you can tell them about "this f***ing problem that keeps showing up. It seems like its happening more and more. May have to get the damn thing fixed." Of course, if you press [up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B,A,B,A,Start] or something it will promptly load up. This should provide deniability for more than casual inspections. Also carry no more than one at a time, as every device breaking looks suspicious. What do you think about this scheme?

I was going to implement a version of this on a desktop PC. If someone was about to seize my HD, I could run a program that overwrites critical portions of it. Even quickest that just overwrites TrueCrypt headers and partition table would take a few minutes. How to make them wait? Screen, looking like part of Windows, pops up saying its scanning and repairing the hard drive. An error occurred, and permanent data corruption will occur unless the process is finished. I'll do some acting to look surprised and pissed, and may pretend to want them to shut it down, so they think I want the data destroyed. ;) The program will be loaded into RAM from encrypted volume on CD or USB stick, which will be promptly discarded. Encrypted volume on it will be erased on load. I think a fake error screen talking data corruption might be a good cover, cuz the last thing they want is data corruption and weren't suspecting it to be a ploy. What u think?

I'm sure an innocent by-standard as yourself, has just mistaken me for some random person. Obviously, it must be a complete accident, of course.

But if I was to put linux on a wifi-enabled device, I wouldn't mind putting it on hardware-modded psp. Of course, I've never done that. :pissed:

And if I did, I would be very secretive about it. :pissed:

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not to mention 99.99% cops don't know shit about computers

True. I read about one guy that got busted breaking someone's encryption the cop said to the reporters, "he was doing something illegal we just weren't sure what". Hopefully the person in question got a good attorney that would've used that statement against them, "You mean you arrested my client and were not even sure why?".

I read it is a felony to bypass any authentication of any computer system in some parts of the USA. :ninja:

isnt that pretty much everywhere in the us? i mean just cracking wep is illegal, i dont see the point of wardriving anyways i mean mabey if your playing with some friends but its hardly hacking wow your breaking into a network using kismet, airsnort, or whatever. should kick it up a notch and make a team wargame while your wardriving atleast then theres a challenge involved

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^^^ in hindsite thats a bad/good idea all i can see is some nerds in cars driving wrecklessly chasing eachother freakin out cuz the ips keep changing everytime they get new access, but then you would actually have to worry about cops.

it seems a point system would do justice as theres alot more involed, e.g. driving, distance, time, how many accessess you get, if you dont get the cops on you for having bunch of computers in the car,

Edited by dinscurge
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isnt that pretty much everywhere in the us? i mean just cracking wep is illegal, i dont see the point of wardriving anyways i mean mabey if your playing with some friends but its hardly hacking wow your breaking into a network using kismet, airsnort, or whatever. should kick it up a notch and make a team wargame while your wardriving atleast then theres a challenge involved

This does make me ask a dumb question.

I'm an honest person by nature,and other than sniffing packets for peoples credit card info and paypal passwords what could you do with it?

I would like to learn simply because it's a puzzle to crack,same reason I learned to lockpick. Of course lockpicking has come in very handy ever since but still..

What are some practical application's both legal and illegal of wardriving and cracking networks?

Don't get me wrong,I fully intend on sniffing around a few networks for info I want/need but not necessarily for hurting anything, just for the acquired knowledge I might get from what I find.

And i've been in enough trouble in my younger days that jail and fines aren't something I want to get into again,I've already lost many a day in jail and a couple cars in fine payments so messing with credit cards and peoples livelihood just isn't appealing.

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i suppose if you were sniffing in business areas you could learn different ways of maneging bigger networks /intranets, but i dont see what you would get in random residential area

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isnt that pretty much everywhere in the us? i mean just cracking wep is illegal, i dont see the point of wardriving anyways i mean mabey if your playing with some friends but its hardly hacking wow your breaking into a network using kismet, airsnort, or whatever. should kick it up a notch and make a team wargame while your wardriving atleast then theres a challenge involved

This does make me ask a dumb question.

I'm an honest person by nature,and other than sniffing packets for peoples credit card info and paypal passwords what could you do with it?

I would like to learn simply because it's a puzzle to crack,same reason I learned to lockpick. Of course lockpicking has come in very handy ever since but still..

What are some practical application's both legal and illegal of wardriving and cracking networks?

Don't get me wrong,I fully intend on sniffing around a few networks for info I want/need but not necessarily for hurting anything, just for the acquired knowledge I might get from what I find.

And i've been in enough trouble in my younger days that jail and fines aren't something I want to get into again,I've already lost many a day in jail and a couple cars in fine payments so messing with credit cards and peoples livelihood just isn't appealing.

Most uses for cracking wifi/wardriving is just pinpointing wifi locations that are readily available, and there are no legal practical reasons to crack wifi.

Some people may just wardrive for networks so they may log the coordinates in case they ever needed to contact someone, or send a file when they are in a hurry or being pursued by a threat.

When I say pursued, I mean by anyone, just in general.

Some people don't wish to mess with networks to be a theif, some of us would rather learn everything they can to evade people who have become threats to our lives.

And some of us just have an overwhelming urge to advance themselves in anything tactical.

Communication is essential to surviving in this world, and the will to survive is strong.

If you can defend yourself, know how to use thousands of devices, and can speak several languages, then you have a future. Guarenteed.

Humans have a tendancy to be drawn to things that comfort them, and it is very comforting to know that you can survive.

Edited by R4p1d
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good luck cracking wired networks with no wifi

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good luck cracking wired networks with no wifi

That was the single most unneeded post by you that I've seen.

Why the hell do you even need to mention "goodluck cracking wired networks with no wifi"

The Topic is "Wardriving"

Wtf?

EDIT: That's common sense, why do you need to post common sense? Is this a new discovery for you????

So you really can't crack a wired network with wifi? Really?!? :withstupid: :cuss:

Edited by R4p1d
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1 humans being drawn to things that comfort them has hardly anything to do with wardriving either and how is cracking the weakest like in any network advancing tactics? wow an 8 year old can run the same program to do it for them as well. yeah a map of wifis would be cool. but thats about it. anything of any real intrest is probably wired.

Edited by dinscurge
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1 humans being drawn to things that comfort them has hardly anything to do with wardriving either and how is cracking the weakest like in any network advancing tactics? wow an 8 year old can run the same program to do it for them as well. yeah a map of wifis would be cool. but thats about it. anything of any real intrest is probably wired.

I lol'ed at the 8 year old part. An 8 year old who can crack wifi?

You can't read can you? Because I said "Anything tactical". I didn't say "Network Advancing Tactics"

Yes, Cracking wifi can be categorized to "Tactics" it just depends on the mission.

And anything of "intrest" is probably wired? If you wanted to Ub3r l33t hack someone, you wouldn't be talking about it in a "Wardriving" Topic.

I can't understand nearly anything you say, almost none of it is legible.

And as far as your knowledge goes, wait it doesn't. :umph:

Yeah, it doesn't happen like this.

barneyhacker1ki.png

Edited by R4p1d
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i never said uber leet hack anything. and yeah anything of interest sorry i dont find some random guys computer interesting i mean if you go by lockheed martin your probably not going to find wep. wow if i have an 8year old use brutus to get into telnet on a box what they learned how to select a dictionary type in an ip and hit enter they didnt advance any tactics, change the password and do it again do it 100 times you dont advance anything watching a program do it for you. yeah i see how having a map showing where wifi is ect could be usefull if you do something stupid as to piss of people. its using a utilitie to do things forr you its not a skill like lockpicking in which picking a lock a few hundred times would make you do it better/faster.

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i never said uber leet hack anything. and yeah anything of interest sorry i dont find some random guys computer interesting i mean if you go by lockheed martin your probably not going to find wep. wow if i have an 8year old use brutus to get into telnet on a box what they learned how to select a dictionary type in an ip and hit enter they didnt advance any tactics, change the password and do it again do it 100 times you dont advance anything watching a program do it for you. yeah i see how having a map showing where wifi is ect could be usefull if you do something stupid as to piss of people. its using a utilitie to do things forr you its not a skill like lockpicking in which picking a lock a few hundred times would make you do it better/faster.

This Topic is about "Wardriving" Please take time to fully read each reply, and please don't post unless you comprehend what you are reading.

Edited by R4p1d
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OBVIOUSLY war driving (or cracking wireless networks in general) isnt a sign of an uber hacker, but it is a useful skill to have. Ever been out and got lost? Break out the laptop, find a network and get directions. Sometimes, for me at least, it's not about the need to actually get into the network. As dinscurge pointed out, that is pretty trivial. I like to think of myself as a very light grey hat. The more networks i prove are vulnerable the more will be fixed. If i can show that even I can break into them then the owners should start to worry. I've never stolen CC numbers or paypal details and frankly i dont have urge to, but i do like to look at peoples habits and dig around a bit. I like talking one tiny bit of information and turning it into a profile.

A little while ago i saw an Interesting talk on the current state of wifi. Some hackers drove around London getting statistics on wireless devices, common passwords, common encryption types etc. They didnt actually connect to any network (at least, as far as their report went) but wardriving can be a quick way to audit a large number of home networks in a short amount of time.

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OBVIOUSLY war driving (or cracking wireless networks in general) isnt a sign of an uber hacker, but it is a useful skill to have. Ever been out and got lost? Break out the laptop, find a network and get directions. Sometimes, for me at least, it's not about the need to actually get into the network. As dinscurge pointed out, that is pretty trivial. I like to think of myself as a very light grey hat. The more networks i prove are vulnerable the more will be fixed. If i can show that even I can break into them then the owners should start to worry. I've never stolen CC numbers or paypal details and frankly i dont have urge to, but i do like to look at peoples habits and dig around a bit. I like talking one tiny bit of information and turning it into a profile.

A little while ago i saw an Interesting talk on the current state of wifi. Some hackers drove around London getting statistics on wireless devices, common passwords, common encryption types etc. They didnt actually connect to any network (at least, as far as their report went) but wardriving can be a quick way to audit a large number of home networks in a short amount of time.

And having computers skills can mean having a decent paying job, voila survival.

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