howyadoin

Whatever happened to..........?

23 posts in this topic

I've been out of the scene for a while, since the 80's actually, and now I don't see what I used to see on the old BBS's. I don't see anyone posting up such things as hacked calling card PINS, etc. like they did in the 80's...whatever happened to that anyway?

Just wondering what's going on with that old way of doing things.

??????????

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I've been out of the scene for a while, since the 80's actually, and now I don't see what I used to see on the old BBS's. I don't see anyone posting up such things as hacked calling card PINS, etc. like they did in the 80's...whatever happened to that anyway?

Just wondering what's going on with that old way of doing things.

??????????

That's because it's illegal.

OP = three letter agency?

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I've been out of the scene for a while, since the 80's actually, and now I don't see what I used to see on the old BBS's. I don't see anyone posting up such things as hacked calling card PINS, etc. like they did in the 80's...whatever happened to that anyway?

Just wondering what's going on with that old way of doing things.

??????????

That's because it's illegal.

OP = three letter agency?

OP = three letter agency? ?? <--What?

Anyway...I just wondered. Seems I see posts sometimes saying not to do something since it's illegal yet I've never heard of a hacker/phreaker who isn't into illegal stuff...take your post for example, you have a link to http://phaction.r8.org/ , well I took a look there and see 1 video on breaking combination locks (doing THAT on a locked area is called "breaking and entering", thus ILLEGAL) & I saw another video on getting free shit from vending machines (also ILLEGAL, it's called THEFT), thus these 2 example videos make my point which is this "Though it's not always admitted to, hackers/phreakers break laws left & right." Ones post may say "That's because it's illegal" (as yours did) but this doesn't mean the illegal act in question ISN'T engaged in, it's probably just not done as out in the open as it used to be in the 80's.

I don't mean to sound funny saying all that...sorry. I just wondered I guess. I bet what's happening is that stuff like stolen calling card PINS are posted underground on sites, since it's illegal I mean.

Hmmm, so that's what happened. Ok.

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Well, times they have changed...

We don't post things like that anymore because if we do, sites like this get shut down, thereby cutting off the communication of thousands of hackers and phreaks. Also post 9/11 telecommunications is treated as a matter of national security, and three letter agencies get involved when illegal activities occur. Finally we have seen members of our community do felony time for things that were considered 'harmless exploration' some 20 years ago. Nobody said that things don't go on, but if they did, here would not be the place for it.

Furthermore, phreaking is and was more about the exploration of systems and understanding of the largets and most sophisticated netwoprk on the face of the earth, not about hacking calling card pins. The advent of VoIP and cheap international calling cards has even served to mitigate the financial incentive for such activities.

Oh! and Welcome Back!

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What happened? Tougher computer crimes laws happened. The FBI happened. Widespread identity theft and fraud happened. If you post something like that now, you're an idiot and you're going to prison. It isn't just some corner of the Internet, some scattered BBS systems or a few people messing around. When there are organized gangs of identity thieves stealing millions and ruining people's lives (credit really matters, stresses cause divorce, etc), things are very different indeed.

I read your post again, and I'd read "calling card" as "credit card." Still, the same reasons apply, to a lesser extent. Laws are tougher now and law enforcement actually pays attention to stuff like this. I'm sure someone from some law enforcement agency reads (and possibly posts to) this forum.

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Furthermore, phreaking is and was more about the exploration of systems and understanding of the largets and most sophisticated netwoprk on the face of the earth, not about hacking calling card pins. The advent of VoIP and cheap international calling cards has even served to mitigate the financial incentive for such activities.

Oh! and Welcome Back!

VoIP and cheap international calling cards doesn't do much to dent ones budget when scanning, for example, half a million phone numbers globally -- in time, such scanning efforts done too often would make a person go broke. Wasn't it mentioned that using diverters or extenders (can't recall the names, sorry) makes calling FREE? (plus, from my recollection, part of what makes a hacker/phreaker who they are is being able to get things free and beat the system where possible).

And thanks. Glad to be back. Having phone numbers to test olines and such comes in handy in more ways than one- one such example was the other day. Someone I didn't want to talk to any more came to my door to illict my assistance and asked for my phone number so I gave him a busy signal (which is busy forever), lol, he'll call it and think I'm just on the phone & won't figure out he got the brush off! ROF...love them test numbers! :)

Speaking of a phunny number, here's one I found myself but don't know what it is : 720-200-0008. Call it and I hear a screeching sound. Would anyone have an idea what this sound is?

Well, since I'm on the topic of scanned numbers, I may as well post ones I found scanning (due to time restraints, I only scan enough to get me some numbers to do me "for now" as opposed to scanning hundreds of them) :

303 area code :

(these ring but never answer) :

839-0002

837-7350

837-7440

837-7500

830-0002

831-0002

831-0004

292-0003

455-0004

455-0006

(these are busy signals that are fast, I think the term is "reorder") :

340-0040

220-0007

841-0088

841-0030

499-7000

659-0030

292-0007

455-0000

455-0010

(test number recordings) :

695-0020 All circuits are busy

797-0014 All circuits are busy

232-0023 You have reached Lakewood 5ESS. (repeats twice)

368-0019 The number was free but has become busy again. Please hang up. You may reactivate

if you wish by dialing the original code.

368-0025 Due to network difficulties your long distance call cannot be completed at this time....

368-0027 Due to telephone company facility trouble your call cannot be completed at this time...

368-0016 RA Frame 2 channel 3, RA Frame 2 channel 3.

368-0018 busy signal

843-0068 The number was free but has become busy again. Please hang up. You may reactivate

if you wish by dialing the original code.

860-0008 Welcome to the new DMS100. All circuits are busy please try your call again later.

Annoucement 8 switch 58-1.

831-0040 The party you have called is on the phone. Please hold and they'll be with you shortly.

(repeats twice. Then a busy signal comes on).

790-0040 A long distance company access code is required for the number you've dialed....

790-0007 To activate telephone service at this location, please contact your local service provider

of choice. Thank you. (repeats twice)

(busy signals-forever busy) :

790-0008

258-0008

841-0008

659-0008

651-0008

344-0008

534-0008

825-0008

(disconnected..forever plays a disconnected recording) :

499-4220

499-4222

232-0035

232-0034

697-0008

840-0008

459-0002

400-4019

(milliwat) :

863-0068

861-0068

832-0068

831-0068

830-0068

860-0068

830-0004

831-0007

861-0008

832-0008

459-0009

659-0009

863-0008

831-0008

830-0008

720-264-0009

720-746-0040

(misc. odd ones) :

341-0040 rings once then silence

720-200-0009 silence

455-0040 dial tone on a PBX ??

790-0010 silence

790-0005 beeps once then silence

Here's an odd one. I have Verizon Wireless in Denver Colorado and when I dial *222 I get a busy signal. I've asked around the telcos and *222 is not a working call feature so what is it then? Hmmmm.... :X

Edited by totallyAunti
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I've been out of the scene for a while, since the 80's actually, and now I don't see what I used to see on the old BBS's. I don't see anyone posting up such things as hacked calling card PINS, etc. like they did in the 80's...whatever happened to that anyway?

Just wondering what's going on with that old way of doing things.

??????????

That's because it's illegal.

OP = three letter agency?

OP = three letter agency? ?? <--What?

Anyway...I just wondered. Seems I see posts sometimes saying not to do something since it's illegal yet I've never heard of a hacker/phreaker who isn't into illegal stuff...take your post for example, you have a link to http://phaction.r8.org/ , well I took a look there and see 1 video on breaking combination locks (doing THAT on a locked area is called "breaking and entering", thus ILLEGAL) & I saw another video on getting free shit from vending machines (also ILLEGAL, it's called THEFT), thus these 2 example videos make my point which is this "Though it's not always admitted to, hackers/phreakers break laws left & right." Ones post may say "That's because it's illegal" (as yours did) but this doesn't mean the illegal act in question ISN'T engaged in, it's probably just not done as out in the open as it used to be in the 80's.

I don't mean to sound funny saying all that...sorry. I just wondered I guess. I bet what's happening is that stuff like stolen calling card PINS are posted underground on sites, since it's illegal I mean.

Hmmm, so that's what happened. Ok.

There is a legitimate use for opening padlocks. I wont bother defending the video on vending machines. It's not like this is underground super secret 1337 0-day information known to a handful of people, I found the video on youtube for fuck's sake. As for the three letter agency comment, there were some earlier posts with funky coloured lettering that were asking some direct and sketchy questions on this forum if I recall. Could be paranoia which keeps you on your toes.

The_Fbi.jpg

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I've been out of the scene for a while, since the 80's actually, and now I don't see what I used to see on the old BBS's. I don't see anyone posting up such things as hacked calling card PINS, etc. like they did in the 80's...whatever happened to that anyway?

Just wondering what's going on with that old way of doing things.

??????????

That's because it's illegal.

OP = three letter agency?

OP = three letter agency? ?? <--What?

Anyway...I just wondered. Seems I see posts sometimes saying not to do something since it's illegal yet I've never heard of a hacker/phreaker who isn't into illegal stuff...take your post for example, you have a link to http://phaction.r8.org/ , well I took a look there and see 1 video on breaking combination locks (doing THAT on a locked area is called "breaking and entering", thus ILLEGAL) & I saw another video on getting free shit from vending machines (also ILLEGAL, it's called THEFT), thus these 2 example videos make my point which is this "Though it's not always admitted to, hackers/phreakers break laws left & right." Ones post may say "That's because it's illegal" (as yours did) but this doesn't mean the illegal act in question ISN'T engaged in, it's probably just not done as out in the open as it used to be in the 80's.

I don't mean to sound funny saying all that...sorry. I just wondered I guess. I bet what's happening is that stuff like stolen calling card PINS are posted underground on sites, since it's illegal I mean.

Hmmm, so that's what happened. Ok.

There is a legitimate use for opening padlocks. I wont bother defending the video on vending machines. It's not like this is underground super secret 1337 0-day information known to a handful of people, I found the video on youtube for fuck's sake. As for the three letter agency comment, there were some earlier posts with funky coloured lettering that were asking some direct and sketchy questions on this forum if I recall. Could be paranoia which keeps you on your toes.

The_Fbi.jpg

I understand.

Speaking of paranoid, I think sometimes the feds say what they do to KEEP people paranoid. Case in point, I've heard that "supposedly" there's a law against scanning telephone numbers here in Colorado (maybe elsewhere?)...but I think this is the feds idea to make people paranoid but it's not really a "law". Reason I say this is because personally I have YET to be busted for scanning from my phone and it's not like I've ever tried to hide it either, plus I got to thinking this, "If they really had ANY law any place against scanning numbers then that would make pollsters like Gallup (who does the Gallup Polls) law breakers for calling from a list of phone numbers to ask people how they're going to vote. And I don't believe for a second companies like Gallup who do polls would put up with being put out of business essentially, so therefore this *rumor* that scanning numbers is illegal any place in America is a bunch of bunk--no doubt it's the feds form of psy-ops targeting phreakers in hopes it'll scare them off." <--Well, the fear-tactic has FAILED on me cause I know better. I've actually worked at companies like Gallup and many times they call from lists of phone numbers which are in sequential order (i.e. 303-832-0000, 303-832-0001, and so on) [like a phreaker would use to scan with] till they have enough people answering their polling questions (and do these companies have a "special license" or something to call tons of numbers this way? Nope, there's no such thing. Do they "get busted by the feds" for breaking some "don't call numbers in sequential order from a list" law?, nope they don't). <--THIS is why I say there are NO LAWS against scanning numbers and NEVER will be since it'd put businesses like Gallup out of business....and anyone who says differently is 1) a fed who is trying to "scare everyone", or 2) an unfortunate phreaker who has "fallen for the lie"..sorry, but true.

BTW, since there's no law covering scanning nor will there ever be, perhaps this will make phreakers feel more at home knowing that being busted for scanning was just the feds using psy-ops on people to scare them off...BOO! :X

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And another note.........

On the ligther side of things............here's a phunny news item I just heard on T.V. !!

http://www.wfls.com/News/FLS/2008/112008/11242008/1227523410

Butt bandit busted

Prosecutors add the man was caught with his pants down.

The Associated Press

WFLS News

Date published: 11/24/2008

OMAHA, Neb. (AP) - Authorities report they've busted the Valentine, Neb., Butt Bandit. Prosecutors add the man was caught with his pants down. The man hasn't been charged yet, but authorities believe he is the guy who's been leaving butt prints on windows around town. Police say beginning in the spring of 2007, some guy has been greasing up his private parts -- front and back -- and pressing them against windows. The butt prints have been found on everything from schools to churches. Cherry County Attorney Eric Scott says all the butt prints appear to be the work of -- quote -- "a lone deviant."

(Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

Date published: 11/24/2008

########################

ROF...haha, that made my day! Hahahahaaa....

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And another note.........

On the ligther side of things............here's a phunny news item I just heard on T.V. !!

http://www.wfls.com/News/FLS/2008/112008/11242008/1227523410

Butt bandit busted

Prosecutors add the man was caught with his pants down.

The Associated Press

WFLS News

Date published: 11/24/2008

OMAHA, Neb. (AP) - Authorities report they've busted the Valentine, Neb., Butt Bandit. Prosecutors add the man was caught with his pants down. The man hasn't been charged yet, but authorities believe he is the guy who's been leaving butt prints on windows around town. Police say beginning in the spring of 2007, some guy has been greasing up his private parts -- front and back -- and pressing them against windows. The butt prints have been found on everything from schools to churches. Cherry County Attorney Eric Scott says all the butt prints appear to be the work of -- quote -- "a lone deviant."

(Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

Date published: 11/24/2008

########################

ROF...haha, that made my day! Hahahahaaa....

Funny, yet quite off topic. More to the point:

I understand.

Speaking of paranoid, I think sometimes the feds say what they do to KEEP people paranoid. Case in point, I've heard that "supposedly" there's a law against scanning telephone numbers here in Colorado (maybe elsewhere?)...but I think this is the feds idea to make people paranoid but it's not really a "law". Reason I say this is because personally I have YET to be busted for scanning from my phone and it's not like I've ever tried to hide it either, plus I got to thinking this, "If they really had ANY law any place against scanning numbers then that would make pollsters like Gallup (who does the Gallup Polls) law breakers for calling from a list of phone numbers to ask people how they're going to vote. And I don't believe for a second companies like Gallup who do polls would put up with being put out of business essentially, so therefore this *rumor* that scanning numbers is illegal any place in America is a bunch of bunk--no doubt it's the feds form of psy-ops targeting phreakers in hopes it'll scare them off." <--Well, the fear-tactic has FAILED on me cause I know better. I've actually worked at companies like Gallup and many times they call from lists of phone numbers which are in sequential order (i.e. 303-832-0000, 303-832-0001, and so on) [like a phreaker would use to scan with] till they have enough people answering their polling questions (and do these companies have a "special license" or something to call tons of numbers this way? Nope, there's no such thing. Do they "get busted by the feds" for breaking some "don't call numbers in sequential order from a list" law?, nope they don't). <--THIS is why I say there are NO LAWS against scanning numbers and NEVER will be since it'd put businesses like Gallup out of business....and anyone who says differently is 1) a fed who is trying to "scare everyone", or 2) an unfortunate phreaker who has "fallen for the lie"..sorry, but true.

BTW, since there's no law covering scanning nor will there ever be, perhaps this will make phreakers feel more at home knowing that being busted for scanning was just the feds using psy-ops on people to scare them off...BOO! :X

(I didn't feel like making a HUGE ass post so I just dumbed it down to a single quotation)

As far as I know, hand scanning is perfectly legal (please correct me if I am wrong on that) because all it really is is exploration. Where exactly did you hear that it was illegal? And about the whole "Dud3 guys t3h f3ds r try1n t0 scr m3 m4nn!!!" thing, from my personal point of view, there is no crazy conspiracy. I mean, yes. A government liked to keep its people fearful because without fear comes revolt and rebellion. But, the idea that, specifically, the feds are targeting hacker and phreakers (a dying breed anymore) is, basically, bullshit. Hell, I know people who call themselves hackers and WORK for the feds. A hacker is an explorer. A phreaker is an explorer. The time of propaganda such as

2083501630_d6ecff43e4.jpg

is gone. The word "hacker" is used in the media because it is household, it is common. Use the word hacker to describe somebody who is going to put a virus on your computer is the easiest way to market something, to defend against these evil people living in the interwebz. The feds have no reason to target ALL of these people because, as much as I hate to give them credit, they can differentiate between "hackers" and "crackers", ie the good guys and the bad guys. As for phreakers, which is what this post is really about anyway, they are dying. I mean, noticed even the name of this section, "Old Skool Phreaking." It's dying. Phreakers haven't done HORRIBLE things in years, and I doubt it would be necessary for the feds to try to scare them into submission.

AND this is my first post in this section, can I hear a HOORAH!?

Nah just kidding, but at least I'm proud of myself ^_^

EDIT: Wow it ended up being long as hell anyway, my bad.

Edited by Little Deviant
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Hoorah.

I like to use the term "whitehat" so nobody will bother me. And that's what I do. But even so, nobody understands why I'd want to learn how to do this stuff if I don't wanna do anything wrong. Well:

1. Curiosity

2. Fun

3. Boredom

Is that too much to ask?

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Well, times they have changed...

We don't post things like that anymore because if we do, sites like this get shut down, thereby cutting off the communication of thousands of hackers and phreaks. Also post 9/11 telecommunications is treated as a matter of national security, and three letter agencies get involved when illegal activities occur. Finally we have seen members of our community do felony time for things that were considered 'harmless exploration' some 20 years ago. Nobody said that things don't go on, but if they did, here would not be the place for it.

Furthermore, phreaking is and was more about the exploration of systems and understanding of the largets and most sophisticated netwoprk on the face of the earth, not about hacking calling card pins. The advent of VoIP and cheap international calling cards has even served to mitigate the financial incentive for such activities.

Oh! and Welcome Back!

That's pretty accurate.

Before I came to BinRev I was involved in warez. Boards like these were easy to target and got shut down. It happened all the time. For one board which I modded, the server got shut down and the guy who headed the group was put in jail. He still hasn't gotten his stuff back from the FBI. Boards are too easily accessible. You don't want to do something as stupid as allow yourself to publicly put information that would get you taken off the air, or worse.

And 10nix is right. When it comes to telephony, there are now legitimate alternatives where there used to be none. Who needs calling cards when you can painlessly call India for pretty much free? Who needs a bridge when you can set one up yourself? Conference calls are easy to access - legitimately. There's no need to rip off companies, and yet there's still plenty of room for phreaking. If you get excited by doing something mildly illegal, well then that's you. But if you get excited by phreaking/hacking, then there's a whole unexplored world out there for you.

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VoIP and cheap international calling cards doesn't do much to dent ones budget when scanning, for example, half a million phone numbers globally -- in time, such scanning efforts done too often would make a person go broke.

Going broke from scanning? :huh: . If you're making enough calls to tax you of everything you have (that'd be, what, at least $1000, right?), your carrier is probably going to suspect abuse and block you.

Anyway, though, aside from the fact that generally, a number of calls (at least in my experience) don't go through, and thus don't charge when you're scanning, I'm surprised nobody else has mentioned the unlimited plans carriers have been advertising for the past ten-ish years. One of the major carriers in my area doesn't mind that I make a horrendous amount of long distance calls across the US and Canada so long as I fork over 25 bucks at the end of the month.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy scanning just as much as the next person over - there's always a ton of cool stuff you can find, but the need to steal calls really doesn't exist. Hell, I even dropped a couple of extra bucks to get prepaid calling cards on other carriers' networks, just for the fun of having the perks that only the equipment on that carrier's network/the location the calling card equipment originates calls from has.

But anyway, even before the 80's came along, and there wasn't even the option of getting a competitive long distance carrier, there were phreaks who had fun with the network, and made very little toll fraud.

http://www.wideweb.com/phonetrips/

To be honest, things aren't all they were right now. When you get a chance, take a listen to a few episodes of this radio show that took place during the time when modern phreaking was at it's heyday.

http://audio.textfiles.com/shows/defaultradio

It's good to have you back :) .

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code lines? Nobody uses codes when we have unlimited long distance... and only a handful of us call overseas... and in that handful, we use VoIP technologies which make calls practically free. Tho we did abuse the fuck out of the folgers cards... I ended up giving up pages of them to po' folks and they loved them.

credit cards? Yeah, identity theft happened. We used to snag card numbers from dumpsters behind retail stores in the stripmall districts of our cities. Now processors have gotten the hint and blotted out the card number, people use shredders more for everything, card processors verify identify in newer ways including the CVV on the back of the card.

logins and passwords? Made sense back in the day when you didn't have internet access or were trying to hide your trail. Now the feds got you at the ISP layer... they know where you came in and where you came out all with a mouse click.

vmb passwords? Hehe... setup an asterisk or get a free vmb account.. nuff said..

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As for phreakers, which is what this post is really about anyway, they are dying. I mean, noticed even the name of this section, "Old Skool Phreaking." It's dying. Phreakers haven't done HORRIBLE things in years, and I doubt it would be necessary for the feds to try to scare them into submission.

Uhh, what? Dying? The only reason why phreakers haven't done "horrible" things in years (and no, the partyline lamers that swat people are NOT phreaks) is because phreaks, like many hackers, generally aren't bad people. The name is open to a lot of interpretations, but seriously, that's like saying urban exploration is dying because people are exploring more rural destinations. People have been saying phreaking is dying since day one.

Has the public scene had slow days? Sure. Is it dead, or been dying out? No.

The fact of the matter is, phreaks get a lot less attention from the world then hackers do. Regardless of what their definition of the word is, your average person is going to recognize the word "hacker" in one way or another. If you ask your average person about a phreak, though, you're going to just get weird looks. So long as security professionals and the like feel the same, they're not going to recognize the fact that their telephone network might be something of interest to people.

The feds have no reason to target ALL of these people because, as much as I hate to give them credit, they can differentiate between "hackers" and "crackers", ie the good guys and the bad guys.

I'm not sure it's as simple as you may think it to be. Cracking in itself isn't necessarily a "bad" activity. There's a big difference between, say, gaining access to something to learn more about it, and at the same time respecting the settings the people who rightfully own it have put there, as opposed to gaining access to something, and then trashing the hell out of it because it makes you feel like you're hot shit. A denial of service attack, for another example, doesn't make someone either a hacker or a cracker by any extent of the mind. It just makes them an idiot with a big ePenis that picked up a program off of google. I could go on, but imho, the real difference between good and bad is a matter of morals.

Edited by ThoughtPhreaker
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All these thing's still exist. They are not however posted on 'spidered' public forums which are no doubt checked on a very regular basis by various 3 letter agencies (although I can't actually verify this). You are asking in all the wrong places and asking in the total wrong manner, if you look in noobie HQ and read stank's sticky on intent, you will learn a bit on how to approach people

Phreaking isn't dead, it's just moved 'underground', people will not share (for very good reason as well) there cool stuff, I mean why should they if some stupid little hormone enraged 14 year old is just going to come along and fuck everything up for the people who have spent a good amount of time finding things.

I also find myself in full agreement with ThoughtPhreaker, there is nothing wrong with looking into thing's, it's what you do with it once you are in, just rememeber this 1 important point, if you don't trash the fuck out of something, your access to it is going to last a lot longer, I suspect this is the same reason why I still have a whole range of phone numbers that terminate on C5 and R2 lines.

Also as I have said on a number of occasion's, phreaking isn't just about phones, there are a whole load of other things that are related to phones. Take for example satellite's there are maybe 3 analog SCPC satellite's left but the stuff you get off of them is amazing, you can even hear obscure places in wherever they are in the worlds armpit using pulse dialing!.

So in a nutshell "lurk more" and ask in the right way, you will get an infinite amount of more help.

RP

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I hate those pisshats who get kicks pranking random people (I'm looking at a few PLA members...)

Hacking is exploring, not fucking over some guy cause he "kicked your dog"

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Yea, however the definition has changed since the term was first coined, and really doesn't make sense when compared to the definition anymore...

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I hate those pisshats who get kicks pranking random people (I'm looking at a few PLA members...)

Hacking is exploring, not fucking over some guy cause he "kicked your dog"

YEAH THE PLA ARE A BUNCH OF PRICK LAMERS!

Edited by Murd0c
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hacking is exploring and cracking is bypassing software copy protections and everything else is just criminal

Edited by Kool Henc
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hacking is exploring and cracking is bypassing software copy protections and everything else is just criminal

"Cracking" is also a term used to describe malicious hacking in general. It's used by people like ESR who are absolutely outraged the word "hacker" is ever used to describe anything negative. The rest of us, who realize that after 20 years the word "cracker" just isn't going to catch on, don't care and use the word "hacker" interchangeably. Language is defined by how it's used, not by a tiny irate percentage.

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As to "why" this old thing isn't happening anymore, at least "publicly" anyway is obvious. Now that I look back on what I started as a topic for this thread I mean.

I forgot when it was the early 80's, there were no laws that were being broken, as in what I saw simply was not illegal back then. Those laws came later so this is why I no longer see it discussed publicly out in the open. So I answered my own question today as I was looking back on my threads question.

Now I can unsubscribe from my old topic. I had forgotten it was even here till I found it by accident today. Whatever.

Edited by totallyAunti
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I found this thread to be funny.

Edited by Lord 0xf
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