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Is this stealing?

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Have you ever lost something and never recovered it? Something such as a CD or... /allot/ of CD/LP material? Like let's say that you have and that it was around 4 thousand+ dollars in software, hardware and music; well that is what happened to me and being strapped for cash I have tried to legitimately recover the really really expensive stuff (props to propellerhead). Yet there's allot of stuff that I really do not know either A) how to recover or B) where I can get it again legitimately, and since much of the actual paperwork was reduced to soot and embers (fire from a lightning strike) I really have no proof of purchase. So all the samples and loops that I had are fucking gone and I do not want to shellout all the dough for legitimate ones... but here's where it gets tricky; Is is really Stealing/Pirating if I am merely replacing something that I already purchased (only a few months ago)?

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So what your saying... is if I lose my car, I can steal another one?

No, he knows it is wrong but he has come here to make himself feel better, before he puts on his eye patch and pirates.

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Yes, it's still illegal and still pirating. As dicked up as that is, that's how the system works.

Even knowing that in your situation I'd pirate the stuff anyway. If you had insurance it should pay for the goods lost in the fire, I know I lied my ass off to get some snazzy new stuff with insurance money after losing two buildings to a fire.

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... but here's where it gets tricky; Is is really Stealing/Pirating if I am merely replacing something that I already purchased (only a few months ago)?

This issue was explored somewhat a while ago on an hpr episode: copyfight vol. 1

Only you can decide if its right or wrong, for you. It's been my experience though that if you think youre doing something wrong, regardless if it actually is or not, you're going to have to deal with the guilt, regret, etc. anyhow :(

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Reading this thrad inspires a odd question:

So, if I have some backups of CD's and someone comes in and steals my collection, am I legally required to destroy my backups?

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Reading this thrad inspires a odd question:

So, if I have some backups of CD's and someone comes in and steals my collection, am I legally required to destroy my backups?

You make backups in case your CDs get scratched or lost. Why would you make backups if you were to destroy them once the original is gone?

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Reading this thrad inspires a odd question:

So, if I have some backups of CD's and someone comes in and steals my collection, am I legally required to destroy my backups?

You make backups in case your CDs get scratched or lost. Why would you make backups if you were to destroy them once the original is gone?

That's kinda my question.. If possession of the original is key. Then if a thief steals the originals, do I still have rights to the backups now that I don't 'control' the originals anymore?

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Reading this thrad inspires a odd question:

So, if I have some backups of CD's and someone comes in and steals my collection, am I legally required to destroy my backups?

You make backups in case your CDs get scratched or lost. Why would you make backups if you were to destroy them once the original is gone?

You can put up a sign at you CD`s "please steal my backup CD`s instead, i cant use them if you steal my originals"

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C'mon guys... what do you really think, albeit I could've lied my ass of for some of the shit but, when you forget what's called... well that's just makes things more difficult :P

You know, perhaps the fire was a good thing, I mean I did have way to much shit and it saved me from cleaning it all up... well on my HD that is.

*Note to self: Arson is an effective cleaning mechanism*

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Pirating software isn't stealing, even if you never bought the original copy. If you made a copy of the software and then hacked into the software company's network and deleted their only copy if it, well, maybe that would be stealing. "Intellectual property" is a concept made up by big companies to rip you off.

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It is not stealing, but it is illegal.

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Pirating software isn't stealing, even if you never bought the original copy. If you made a copy of the software and then hacked into the software company's network and deleted their only copy if it, well, maybe that would be stealing. "Intellectual property" is a concept made up by big companies to rip you off.

Haha. Good luck explaining that one to Bubba in the shower. In the eyes of the law, "intellectual property" is as real as physical property. Just because it's silly doesn't mean it's not real.

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Ok. I'm a noob but I have to think that the main worry is that the original producers of the product want you to pay to use it. You did. Can you prove it at this time? No. Is it morally right to find a copy and use it? I think yes because you paid for it. Can you prove you own the right to use it? No. So it all depends on what you conscious says. That should be the biggest factor. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

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It's not illegal in Sweden xD

It's all up to some ethical decision. As far as getting caught, I don't think many software companies spend nearly the same amount of resources as many companies in the entertainment industry do. And they only do that because they can charge college students and dead people $750 per song. That certainly has nothing to do with ethics.

I say go for it. Just be smart when you're doing it.

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Ok. I'm a noob but I have to think that the main worry is that the original producers of the product want you to pay to use it. You did. Can you prove it at this time? No. Is it morally right to find a copy and use it? I think yes because you paid for it. Can you prove you own the right to use it? No. So it all depends on what you conscious says. That should be the biggest factor. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I agree with this, more or less. If it really turns into a major ethical issue for you, purchase the products again. If you don't, you'll feel guilty every time you use the software/CD, and it seems to me that overwhelming guilt would suck all pleasure out of said software/music/etc.

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So what your saying... is if I lose my car, I can steal another one?

But a car's value is in it's material. It costs almost nothing to manufacture and print software on a CD. It's the software itself that is the money. He already had paid for the software but he lost it. The company nor anyone else loses anything from him stealing another copy.

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Stealing is wrong because something is lost, not because something is not created. There is no ethical problem with pirating something you've already spent money on. Furthermore, there is no ethical problem in pirating something you are certain you would have never bought anyway, because you're closer to buying it after downloading it. The only ethical problem is when you do not pay for something you would have otherwise, because you pirated it. Then, maybe there is a good reason to feel guilty.

As an example, when I was younger I downloaded some songs from a band called Sonata Arctica. As I acquired more of their songs, they quickly became a favorite of mine. Slowly, over time, I bought their CDs, and now I own them all. Of course, there are some bands i've listened to or do listen to, whose CDs I don't own, but that's because I have only so much money to spend on music. When I have money to spend on music, I will spend it on music, and until that time i'll just have to listen for free, because I am not hurting anyone. And even after I own a CD, I usually still use the mp3s, because they are easier to access.

Of course, on the flipside, one of the computer games I intended to buy came out early on a torrent tracker, so I downloaded it. By the time the game was released I had already beaten it, and though I intend to play it again, I still have not purchased it. I still feel guilty for not buying it, because i took the money that was supposed to go that game, and kept it for myself, and played for free, only because it was cheap and easy. (Keep in mind I still intend to buy the game and play it again, after i've had time to forget the storyline, and the next time i'll have mods and expansion packs).

There is a huge difference between these two examples morally, even though there is little difference legally. In short, do your best for yourself without hurting anyone else. Good luck

Edited by clem
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So, out of curiosity, where would this example fall? I have a ton of cassette tapes, many from one-off hair metal bands that never went anywhere and the label doesn't keep in print. Would one have a legal right to obtain digital copies of these recordings? I already paid for the original (sometimes used, just to throw a fun curve ball in :) ), and simply want it in digital format. Logically, it makes sense, especially with the out of print stuff, but we know that law and logic are like oil and water.

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Only you can decide if its right or wrong, for you.

A wise man once said...

"Look, there is no right and wrong. There is only fun and boring."

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So what your saying... is if I lose my car, I can steal another one?

If you steal a car someone is out of a car. If you "pirate" a piece of software they still own the original copy.

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So, if I have some backups of CD's and someone comes in and steals my collection, am I legally required to destroy my backups?

Technically, it isn't legal to make backups in the first place! (according to an article I read about the DMCA in a computer mag). The only reason backups of software is legal is because it is written into the license.

HOWEVER, for software, you buy the right to use it rather than the software itself. Doesn't this mean that getting a pirated copy is ok, so long as you brought the original? (just like its ok to download the rom image of a game, so long as you brought the original?)

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