p0d

Gentoo Linux and "Speed"

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I have just installed Gentoo, and it has been a real bitch to setup. I mean, it has been 2 or so weeks and I still do not have allot of stuff working, like my sound-card and WiFi... so I am left wondering, is it worth it? And does it actually run any faster?

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Yes. No. Depends on what you understand by faster.

My experience was that it did run faster in most cases (though I found little to no reason to compile Firefox or Open Office from source) though if you need to dedicate time to emerging and nothing else, the average of the two will make it not much faster than, say, Arch.

On the other hand, I learnt the most about Linux from my 2 years with Gentoo. So, again, depends what you are looking for.

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Yes, I would have to say that I really have learned a whole lot with Gentoo, but that still doesn't mean it should be as aggravating as it can be... and yeah, I really do not see the point of compiling FF or OpenOffice from scratch.

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Yes, I would have to say that I really have learned a whole lot with Gentoo, but that still doesn't mean it should be as aggravating as it can be... and yeah, I really do not see the point of compiling FF or OpenOffice from scratch.

Eh, I think we spoke on IRC. We came to the conclusion you were wasting your time, and I was laughing about you from my debian box.

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Back in the day when nothing was optimized for your machine then gentoo could actually have a noticeable increase in speed. Today is different... the speed difference is only measurable with benchmarking software which means you will never get back the part of your life that you spent compiling the universe.

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Yes, I would have to say that I really have learned a whole lot with Gentoo, but that still doesn't mean it should be as aggravating as it can be... and yeah, I really do not see the point of compiling FF or OpenOffice from scratch.

Eh, I think we spoke on IRC. We came to the conclusion you were wasting your time, and I was laughing about you from my debian box.

Back in the day when nothing was optimized for your machine then gentoo could actually have a noticeable increase in speed. Today is different... the speed difference is only measurable with benchmarking software which means you will never get back the part of your life that you spent compiling the universe.

Yeah, I think that I am wasting my time, but which would waste more time, install a new OS or sticking with Gentoo?

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Yes, I would have to say that I really have learned a whole lot with Gentoo, but that still doesn't mean it should be as aggravating as it can be... and yeah, I really do not see the point of compiling FF or OpenOffice from scratch.

Eh, I think we spoke on IRC. We came to the conclusion you were wasting your time, and I was laughing about you from my debian box.

General distro elite'ism is really stupid. Unfortunately, pretty much every distro has there zealots. I've never really understood why someone gives a shit what other people run. It seems like a waste of time. Oh well....

I wouldn't install Gentoo for "speed". I've always found this a silly thing. I use Gentoo for some servers. These are usually headless systems. The reason? I can build the system up via stage one hardened, using GCC pro-police stack protection, grsec/pax kernel and various other security features I can't easily get out of other distros. It allows me a lot of control over installation of packages and how they are installed. I also use OpenBSD for security reasons. It's great for firewalls and systems with limited software.

Your best bet, if Gentoo isn't doing it for you, would be to just download and test other distros. Become a distro whore for a little while until you find something that works for you. I

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I suggest you install debian and learn how to use it. Use testing repositories, they're quite complete. Also learn how to use checkinstall for the rare things that won't be in the repositories.

P.S.: you'll probably get your sound card working in no time with debian. If it does not work out of the box, open a terminal, su, and then type alsaconf. The utility will then load the appropriate sound driver module for your card.

Edited by Aghaster
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After some thought, I just went and to installed Ubuntu. At this point (E.G. durring the school year) I just need a system that works, I left asside another 40GB partition free for mucking around with whatever Distro I go with next. The install of Ubuntu only took like 30 minutes, but I think I will probably go and make my own custom kernel.

--p0d

*EDIT* Aghaster, I have run Debian before and would have gone with Debian if I could have downloaded the ISO's, 4.6GBs is asking allot out of a bandwidth choked student network. Besides Ubuntu is Debain based....well, kind of ;-)

Oh yeah, and Beave I could see why you wuld use Gentoo for headless systems, That makes sense

/EDIT

Edited by baby-Hackribs
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After some thought, I just went and to installed Ubuntu. At this point (E.G. durring the school year) I just need a system that works, I left asside another 40GB partition free for mucking around with whatever Distro I go with next. The install of Ubuntu only took like 30 minutes, but I think I will probably go and make my own custom kernel.

--p0d

*EDIT* Aghaster, I have run Debian before and would have gone with Debian if I could have downloaded the ISO's, 4.6GBs is asking allot out of a bandwidth choked student network. Besides Ubuntu is Debain based....well, kind of ;-)

Oh yeah, and Beave I could see why you wuld use Gentoo for headless systems, That makes sense

/EDIT

Eh, I never download the whole debian CDs, they are way too big. Instead, always download the 'netinst' CDs, which are small isos that contain the minimum you need to install debian on your computer. The installer will download only the needed packages at install time. This way, you save a lot of bandwith that would have been used downloading full isos that contained a zillion packages you wouldn't even have used.

Here is the netinstall CD download page for debian

Edited by Aghaster
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Oh, sweet thanks man. Can't believe I didn't think of that, still though, keeping Ubuntu just to have working system.

--p0d

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Currently I run Debian and Fedora Core, both binary distros. I have run gentoo in the passed, and it was my VERY first distro. Thing is that, yes you learn, but its learning that is useless when 1) its how to use /gentoo/ 2) you waste so much time you cant even use your computer. Binary distros just make a whole lot more sense when you have such a selection amongst computer hardware like the AMD athalon and opterons or the intel c2d and quad cores. who the heck cares if its .001 seconds slower, when you have a quad core?

Point is, gentoo is only useful for very custom situtations. Or if you are an elitist, but many can say that about Debian as well. :D

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in my opinion ,using gentoo you wast your time on compilations , etc. , and wen you use gentoo you learn gentoo , but if you use Slackware you have stability , security , speed and you learn Linux.

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Lets put it this way:

<elitism>

By the time gentoo is done emerging the sources, ive already reinstalled my Debian system 2 times. I've also managed to recompile my kernel and have working sound/video/wifi. Not to mention ive checked my email and looked at some pr0n. So what is the point of sitting there making your computer 'faster' when you will be behind the other guy using a binary distro? So you can make your computer run .000001 seconds faster? Or maybe so you can watch paint dry?

debian ftw!

</elitism>

B)

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Anything remotely modern and important of mine runs something like Gentoo or Arch, simply because I like more quality control and granularity on my systems. Beave echoes several of my biggest reasons for using Gentoo on servers and mission-critical systems. I would choose Debian or other binary-based distros for a laptop or casual use desktop system. But these days, I have so much work to do that frankly, I'm willing to invest time into my casual-use desktop if it means I won't ever have to bother with it again.

Alk3,

The point of a source-based distro is control. If I'm going to invest the time into a well-constructed system, in the scientific sense, it's going to be something that will stay up for years and serve its purpose well without a hiccup or compromise. As long as the developers maintain a piece of software. Fort Knox. I plan to have my machines running for years with essentially the same set of applications and data.

Edited by j4mes
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Anything remotely modern and important of mine runs something like Gentoo or Arch, simply because I like more quality control and granularity on my systems. Beave echoes several of my biggest reasons for using Gentoo on servers and mission-critical systems. I would choose Debian or other binary-based distros for a laptop or casual use desktop system. But these days, I have so much work to do that frankly, I'm willing to invest time into my casual-use desktop if it means I won't ever have to bother with it again.

Alk3,

The point of a source-based distro is control. If I'm going to invest the time into a well-constructed system, in the scientific sense, it's going to be something that will stay up for years and serve its purpose well without a hiccup or compromise. As long as the developers maintain a piece of software. Fort Knox. I plan to have my machines running for years with essentially the same set of applications and data.

Makes sense

Lets put it this way:

<elitism>

By the time gentoo is done emerging the sources, ive already reinstalled my Debian system 2 times. I've also managed to recompile my kernel and have working sound/video/wifi. Not to mention ive checked my email and looked at some pr0n. So what is the point of sitting there making your computer 'faster' when you will be behind the other guy using a binary distro? So you can make your computer run .000001 seconds faster? Or maybe so you can watch paint dry?

debian ftw!

</elitism>

Kinda true, Debian IMO leaves some things to be desired, all in all, it is a good Desktop OS.

Ubuntu is well... more of a Debian clone without some erm... yeah... :huh:

So, I liked Gentoo quite abit (despite all the frustrations), but from the responses it seems that it really only makes sense to sink that much time into a systems when you have made it from scratch E.G. not an OEM compatability-hell box.

???

Edited by baby-Hackribs
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Why don't you try OpenGeu ?

It is based on Ubuntu, amazingly fast and detects almost all the hardware.

WiFi configuration is just a piece of cake.

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If you want to get a good source based distro with a good philosophy and sane devs... check out Source Mage. The distro just makes a whole lot more sense than gentoo imo.

http://www.sourcemage.org/

I get what you guys are saying about granularity and having a tapered system, but you should really pay attention to what the devs do with your OS. Gentoo upgrades often happen without announcement. It can be days when an upgrade happens and it is spoken of. So in reality you may have vulnerable software.

Its quite easy to build a Debian from scratch distribution. And DFS is probably easier than a gentoo system. I also ran gentoo, slackware, fedora, and ubuntu. If you want stable check out slackware 10 or Debian Sarge from scratch, and even Fedora Core 5.

Binary distros have the same thing as source based. The only difference is the release cycle and the packaging systems. In the end its all uploaded to a mirror, and its just based on how you install your software. Compile flags mean nothing if you are building a high security system anyway. You are most likely going to compile from source on any such system.

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Alk3: I'm curious, what are the effective differences between Source Mage and Gentoo? I read their wiki but as far as I can tell it's pretty much the same thing.

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Sorry man. I'm not going to do a write up on the diffrences. I personally don't know all the effective differences. I use Debian. But as an outside entity to the distros, Source Mage makes more sense. I'm not forcing anything on anyone, so here is where you should look for an elaboration and make up your own mind.

http://wiki.sourcemage.org/FAQ/Gentoo/Philosophical

http://wiki.sourcemage.org/New_to_Source_Mage_GNU/Linux

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Guess I'll get involved since Alk brought up Source Mage.

Ok Gentoo or any other distro is not as fast as the same system on a different distro. All that matters is the optimizition which actually makes the cpu work much more efficient.

People choose Gentoo because it's BSD like due to portage but in reality is nothing like BSD.

Now on to Source Mage people choose that due to the fact that it lets you choose what you want to compile support into as you run "cast <program>". (I have heard all of the jokes so don't bother with them.)

Pretty much Source Mage uses questions after cast is called upon instead of a make.conf file.

I actually find this much better then how gentoo have their portage setup.

But if you need to know more you can come over to #sourcemage and ask bunch of us about it. it's on freenode like most distros.

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i installed arch about 18 months a go on a really old slow PC, it was about 3 or 4 times faster then my main, dual-core new PC, with 2 gigs of RAM. arch is optimised for i686 processors and it's really noticeable. i haven't used gentoo.

i think you only need to use the first debian cd because the others are just the repos, i could be wrong though.

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Moving to the Unix section

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wasn't this int he unix section already? I thought it was oh well

oh yeah I used many linux distros as well so I don't really notice a speed increase in any of them unless they are installed or live

Edited by kitche
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