Demonic_angel

Finally figured it out

42 posts in this topic

Alright I have finally figured out why I am not getting any better at this stuff.

I am not doing anything. I can get through web pages and do alot of the easy stuff but I want to know more and endless tutorials on stuff I won't or can't do is useless. So, I want to figure out how to get into computers (mostly for networking and learning).

I have a couple of privately owned (by me) computers and a friend has agreed to come over and lock down some of the things I may have over looked. I am going to use this as my little learning area.

What I would like to know is what kinds of programs would be good for this kinda of thing, and if any particular programming languages would be needed. Nmap, i think is a good choice and perhaps hamachi but im not sure.

Any advice would be appreciated and save me hours on Google.

Thanx

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You know, practicing "hacking" into shit isn't really going to do you much good if you don't know how most of that software is put together in the first place. A lot of the simple stuff, like port scanning, etc. is really just rudimentary and you follow a basic formula to find vulnerabilities.

If you want to try to learn some perhaps ultimately more interesting stuff, why don't you just dick around with interesting settings for a while. Get a unix on one of your computers and start dicking around with it. Break stuff; break lots of stuff, and then try to fix it. You'll learn the most by fixing broken stuff. Once you start to pick up a method to the madness, you'll learn to think more creatively.

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Learn C. Learn C++. The path to success is paved with enlightenment. You have to understand what you're doing before you can do anything of consequence. Those that succeed without understanding achieve things with brute force, infinite patience and pure luck.

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The path to success is paved with enlightenment.

Ah dammit Ohm I do love your quotes! :D

<topic>

Yeah, learning C/C++ and later ASM has helped me a hell of a lot!

</topic>

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C and C++ huh.

What exactly can you do with that? Every time I have asked a question about some of the more involved bits of computers it learn a language. I mean is really so helpful? All the things I look at Its stuff like make a loop and create an array. I can do the same thing with VB and use less time and space. So really What's the big deal with C and C++? What makes them so useful? (more directed toward ohm cause from what i have seen and what people say about you ur like a programming god or something)

Any way thanks for the input though.If learning a language can really help so much maybe I should just learn one. and C and\or C++ seem like winners no matter where you go.

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How can you expect to make software do something it's not designed to do if you don't know how it works? That's like trying to tune an engine without knowing anything about it. Everything you do will be guessing and any success will be pure luck.

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Maybe I am not being clear. I may not be a superbad l337 but i am pretty good with computers. I know a little something about most the things on a computer but you go to in depth into anyone thing and I can't help. ( I do know quite a bit about cars tho and am looking forward to the 09 Camaro) I did learn a bit of programming but nothing in depth cause i figured i could just download a program already written. Besides, I don't want software to do something its not suppose to do.

Originally I posted this topic because I wanted to get better at various things. (Port exploitation, networking, etc. ) and you and thenotwist suggest I learn C or C++.

I want to know why? I just don't see how they can be that helpful. But I know you are apparently very good with program languages. So, what applications can you use them for? Or are they just a good thing to know for knowledges sake?

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Learn networks, topologys, osi models, and how data flows through networks. What raw data consists of. Learn TCP/IP. Shell scripting. Python, Perl, C, C++. Get books on CISSP, ICND, TCP/IP, Hacking Exposed, Google Hacking, etc etc. That's a good start for you.

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Wow. I'm at a loss...I just don't know where to begin, so I guess I'll just say this:

There is no hacking without programming.

That should get the point across

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Maybe I am not being clear. I may not be a superbad l337 but i am pretty good with computers. I know a little something about most the things on a computer but you go to in depth into anyone thing and I can't help. ( I do know quite a bit about cars tho and am looking forward to the 09 Camaro) I did learn a bit of programming but nothing in depth cause i figured i could just download a program already written. Besides, I don't want software to do something its not suppose to do.

Originally I posted this topic because I wanted to get better at various things. (Port exploitation, networking, etc. ) and you and thenotwist suggest I learn C or C++.

I want to know why? I just don't see how they can be that helpful. But I know you are apparently very good with program languages. So, what applications can you use them for? Or are they just a good thing to know for knowledges sake?

So what exactly do you want to do?

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Wow. Nice font size jedibebop.

I want to be able do basically whatever I want on a computer. And this is my problem in a nutshell.

I have very limited resources, but I really like computers. I like the little exploits and all of that other stuff. However, I can read and "learn" all I want, but I am not ever gonna really learn till I have something to put what I have learned into practice to make it stick. So, the easiest way to learn and practice ( I thought) was to do something challenging hence my hack my own network idea. I did not think actual programming was so essential.

So besides Learning a Language. Anyone have a better Idea about learning all this stuff while keeping still being able to practice it.

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A loop or an array is not the most exciting thing in the world, but you have to learn the basics before you do what you want to do.

Besides, when you get into crazier stuff, there isn't always a program that does what you want to do. That's when you program.

What you're saying is, "Teach me how to do uberleet backflips on a snowboard, but I don't want to learn the basics!"

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got to crawl before you can walk d00d. There is no easy way. Security and hacking consists of RTFM and JFGI constantly! oh and programming/scripting =p

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You aren't going to be able to do anything unless you know about programming. There is a difference between knowing a programming language and knowing how to program. Just because you know a programming language and can write software doesn't mean you really know what's happening. You have a very basic understanding and know a few rules that allow you to tell a machine what to do. When you understand concepts on a deeper level and know why/how certain things work the way they do you can expand and learn how to make them do things they shouldn't. Just because you know how to declare an array and loop through it doesn't mean you have an understanding of what an array is. Also depending on the way you declare and initialize it depends where it is stored in memory. Without understanding these concepts you can write software but you aren't going to understand how to exploit it. Attempting to learn how to hack is futile as you are looking very narrowly and wont understand the large picture. Learning how to program and how programming languages actually work will allow you to skip the "learning how to hack" phase because once you know how they work it's generally fairly simple to see the problems in the implementation. People are telling you to learn C because it doesn't abstract a lot away and allows for you to really see what is happening (assuming you pay attention). Memory management is all done by the programmer which is one of the main causes of many of the vulnerabilities in static binaries. By understanding memory allocation, how the different segments of memory work, what happens when a function is called, and what the computer is actually doing you will know how to make it do something different. But honestly, how do you expect to find a vulnerability, and exploit it, if you don't understand how and why it's vulnerable.

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Originally I posted this topic because I wanted to get better at various things. (Port exploitation, networking, etc. ) and you and thenotwist suggest I learn C or C++.

I want to know why? I just don't see how they can be that helpful. But I know you are apparently very good with program languages. So, what applications can you use them for? Or are they just a good thing to know for knowledges sake?

You will not see why programing will be helpful until you start getting into it. I am learning C and C++ and it has help my hacking 100X.

Learn about :

TCP

UDP

IP

OSI 7 Layer Model (Master it, you will be using it a lot)

DNS

DHCP(Not what but HOW it works)

WINS

MAC

ARP

ICMP( And why it can be bad for your network to have it enabled)

IPv4

IPv6

RIP

IPSec

Authentication Headers

NAT

Subnetting (You have to master this or you will get no were fast)

How to Convert Dec to Octal, Hex and Binary. (Really Really easy)

What 169.240.0.X is and what it means.

And that is just the basic windows networking side of hacking.

There is no right way to hack, you just need to learn what you are doing but more so WHY it is doing what you ask it to do.

There is a push. You will always be reading when you are trying to hack something.You will not be able to jump right in it. You will always have to learn there is no getting around it.

biosphear

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^^^^^ what i said but better =p Ontop of that learn some type of programming. Even if you learn the basics you'll have a strong foundation for later on. My suggestions would be perl && python, C, and C++. Definitly take biosphears advice though. That'll explain alot on basic/intermedidate windows networking, how data flows, and what it all means. I'll compile some links for you to get started with.

- http://www.learntosubnet.com/ (good site on subnetting, binary, and hex)

- http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redbooks/pdfs/gg243376.pdf (huge pdf book on tcp/ip)

- http://www.ircbeginner.com/ircinfo/Routing_Article.pdf (Good article on basic beginner tcp/ip)

- http://www.hackerz.ir/e-books/Google%20Hacks.pdf (Your ultimate guide to google, let this book serve as your tour guide)

- http://www.perl.org/ (great resources for learning perl)

- http://docs.python.org/ (^^^ as stated above)

- http://www.php.net/manual/en/ (^^^ as stated above)

- http://www.cprogramming.com/tutorial.html (^^^^ as stated above for both C and C++)

That'll be a great foundation for you. Seriously take time to read this stuff. Learn all you possibly can from them. Then and only then do i want you to come back and ask questions. It took me about 4 years to place my feet on solid ground and trust me they are far from being planted still.

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Thanks XxthugstylezxX that was gonna be my next question. But what kind of compilers will I need?

(If the tut explain don't worry bout answering.)

Peace out all!

Thanx for the advice

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CODE or DO NOT CODE, there is no should I?

I would identify your lack of progress towards your imagined goals as one of procrastination and laziness. You said yourself "I'm not doing anything." Take a look at your progress so far. Have you set any goals, have you taken any real interest in specific processes, do you RTFM? We can debate the finer points of software vs. hardware vs. wetware all day, but if you truly want to make progress in your life you need to take the bull by the horns and do something. My suggestions:

- Identify your desired end goal

- Prioritize and set milestone goals

- RTFM constantly

- Believe in attaining the "impossible"

- Ignore newbies and only believe half of what a veteran says

- Make your own beer

Follow these suggestions and you will be on the road to your "l33t" status.

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Personally, I use textpad for damn near everything.

For C++ get bloodshed: http://www.bloodshed.net/download.html

Get textpad here: http://www.textpad.com/download/

You can still use textpad for c/c++/perl and i assume python but i havent gotten to far into python. You can customize it to highlight keywords in your preferred color for easier reading. It will give you line numbers or no line numbers. It gives a side bar of ascii values. Its my personal favorite. Compilers are no more then personal prefference though.

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Dev C++ is pretty shitty. It's buggy, hasn't been updated in 3 years (and the last stable release was sometime before 2003) and written in Delphi. Who in their right mind writes a C++ IDE in Delphi? Visual Studio Express Edition blows it out of the water and is also free.

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Well, XxthugstylezxX you have been a big help dude. Thanks for the links (and damn! that pdf is huge! 1004 pages. Well At least I have plenty to read right?)

Just a last couple of things

Do you know of any texpad like program for free? Or is texpad a continual trial?

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Well, XxthugstylezxX you have been a big help dude. Thanks for the links (and damn! that pdf is huge! 1004 pages. Well At least I have plenty to read right?)

Just a last couple of things

Do you know of any texpad like program for free? Or is texpad a continual trial?

Notepad++ is quite good.

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Well, XxthugstylezxX you have been a big help dude. Thanks for the links (and damn! that pdf is huge! 1004 pages. Well At least I have plenty to read right?)

Just a last couple of things

Do you know of any texpad like program for free? Or is texpad a continual trial?

Emacs, Vim, Notepad++, jEdit.

About your programming questions: what's the point of learning C or C++?

- How are you going to talk to a foreigner without knowing his language? C and C++ are used in almost every application out there.

Why learn C++ or C when you know VB?

- Actually that question was asked in a much cockier tone but I toned it down. Seeing as you don't really know much about how computers really work, I don't think explaining the differences not only in structure but also in efficiency and running time (C and C++ kick VB's ass any day, and before jedibebop walks in with his "premature optimization is the root of blah blah" I'd like to add that sometimes optimization is needed. (it doesn't help that I don't know what exactly you want to learn) Sure you can code "faster" in VB - the point is that noone really uses it for anything besides prototyping) has much sense.

Anyway, you won't learn anything without reading. If you really like computers and would like to seriously learn something about them, get ready to invest around 10 or so - if not more - years of learning. (though you might have some of that past you)

If you need books, go to http://freecomputerbooks.com

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The VB thing wasn't suppose to sound cocky, I don't know all of it. I was saying why know C or C++ when I can make the equivalent in vb with less work. But I suppose I just haven't gone in depth enough into programming to see its use. (I only know basic VB and batch but not much else.) But I am on my way to rectify that. I am downloading notepad++ right now. I only have about two years of real learning in comp. but I learn fast so maybe I can shorten the next 8 yrs to like four :D

See ya. (thanx again for the links.)

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As for dev c++, i'll admit i've never used it but ever since i started with computers thats all i've heard was "use bloodshed".

To answer your question though yes textpad is a continuous trial. Gives you the full program and every like 5-10 compiles it'll prompt you with "buy or continue evaluation"

Other than that you should have all the information you need to get you going on the right path. Report back in 4 years =p

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