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wanderer

School Network Help

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Hello,

Im new here and I have a simple question. And based on what I've read on this forum I'm sure you guys could help me out.

I go to a small school with only about 50 kids and our schools network administrator (who is also the math and computer teacher) thinks hes the crap. For example: Today I was in computer class and since I have already finished the course weeks ahead of schedule, I was working on a website from the school computer. So my netadmin starts screwing around with my mouse and crap with some classroom spy program and then exits out of all my apps and shuts the computer down like the deusche he is. Heres where I stand on the network. Last year, some stupid moron from yearbook left the administrator login password on a post-it note. I try it out and it works. At that time I had no intention on doing anything and wasnt even into hacking. So this year comes around and I want to play a couple "pranks" on my "invincible" netadmin. Just something like changing his wallpaper around to whatever. Theres like 25 computers in the lab, and I have admin privileges on all of them locally. Turns out the admin password for the network that got changed still works if logging onto the local machine. So if someone could assist me in gaining access to network with admin privileges so I can change his wallpaper, it would be greatly appreciated.

P.S. I did try running a brute-force on an account on the network with admin privileges which is no longer in use, however due to the slowness of our schools computers, it said it would take 45 days to complete, so that was of no avail.

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Their computers their rules. Its unfortunate that they behave like the people that use their equipment but it is their equipment to do what they please.

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Is it your computer? No.

Is it on your network? No.

Do you pay for bandwidth? No.

As the poster above me said, It's their shit.. their rules... buy a laptop.

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I've been reading around the posts here and I'm just curious, this is a hacking site right? Because from the posts I've read it doesn't sound like it. Take this thread for example, why wouldn't you just help him hack his netadmin? Isn't the point of hacking to do things like that? Who cares if it's not his network or his computers? When has hacking ever been ethical?

note: i'm not trying to start a fight, but seriously? that's why hacking has so much appeal.

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I've been reading around the posts here and I'm just curious, this is a hacking site right? Because from the posts I've read it doesn't sound like it. Take this thread for example, why wouldn't you just help him hack his netadmin? Isn't the point of hacking to do things like that? Who cares if it's not his network or his computers? When has hacking ever been ethical?

note: i'm not trying to start a fight, but seriously? that's why hacking has so much appeal.

See thats what you see through you're eyes. Hacking isn't breaking into shit and messing things up. Its learning how things work how to prevent other malicious attackers from entering you're servers/web applications ect. Hacking appeals to people that want to be able to get revenge on others and it also appeals to others who want to get better at something or steal something. Hardly anyone anymore just wants to learn. Real "hackers" are ethical. And the reason why everyone was saying "get you're own laptop" was because he was asking a question against the rules. ;)

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I've been reading around the posts here and I'm just curious, this is a hacking site right? Because from the posts I've read it doesn't sound like it. Take this thread for example, why wouldn't you just help him hack his netadmin? Isn't the point of hacking to do things like that? Who cares if it's not his network or his computers? When has hacking ever been ethical?

note: i'm not trying to start a fight, but seriously? that's why hacking has so much appeal.

3. DEFINITION OF "HACKING"
Hacking is about production, not destruction; it involves curiosity, research, analysis, knowledge, the creation of new ideas, the discovery of amazing breakthroughs, and the sharing of information with those who will use it responsibly. Hacking is not illegal activity. The Digital Dawg Pound and the Binary Revolution Forums will not take any responsibility for your actions, nor do we condone any sort of illegal activity, especially in the name of hacking.

http://www.binrev.com/forums/index.php?act=boardrules

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courtesy audits are usually welcome. just don't mess anything up.

edit[0]: do NOT disclose any vulnerabilities you may find.

Edited by chazzer
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definition of hacking:

Unauthorized use, or attempts to circumvent or bypass the security mechanisms of an information system or network.

www.tsl.state.tx.us/ld/pubs/compsecurity/glossary.html

Hacking means illegally accessing other people's computer systems for destroying, disrupting or carrying out illegal activities on the network or computer systems.

www.infosec.gov.hk/english/general/glossary_gj.htm

This term is used to indicate breaking into computers or computer networks by avoiding safety measures. Persons who perform the act of hacking, are called hackers.

english.mediadesign.nl/helpdesk/glossary/

The slang term used to describe illegal access of computer systems by unauthorised users.

www.digital-commitment.co.uk/digital-commitment-glossary-of-internet-terms-h.html

The process of a person trying to break into a secure computer system.

www.angelsoft.org.uk/ictmiddleschool/Double/glossary.htm

Accessing illegally or without authorization computers, accounts, equipment or networks belonging to another party, or attempting to penetrate security measures of another system. ...

www.searcycafe.com/wifiaup.php

I guess I just would just consider you guys coders then, not hackers.

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That's not the original meaning of the term 'hacker'

The media told everyone script kiddies and crackers were 'hackers', so now everyone has their definitions all fuzzled up.

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definition of hacking:

Unauthorized use, or attempts to circumvent or bypass the security mechanisms of an information system or network.

www.tsl.state.tx.us/ld/pubs/compsecurity/glossary.html

Hacking means illegally accessing other people's computer systems for destroying, disrupting or carrying out illegal activities on the network or computer systems.

www.infosec.gov.hk/english/general/glossary_gj.htm

This term is used to indicate breaking into computers or computer networks by avoiding safety measures. Persons who perform the act of hacking, are called hackers.

english.mediadesign.nl/helpdesk/glossary/

The slang term used to describe illegal access of computer systems by unauthorised users.

www.digital-commitment.co.uk/digital-commitment-glossary-of-internet-terms-h.html

The process of a person trying to break into a secure computer system.

www.angelsoft.org.uk/ictmiddleschool/Double/glossary.htm

Accessing illegally or without authorization computers, accounts, equipment or networks belonging to another party, or attempting to penetrate security measures of another system. ...

www.searcycafe.com/wifiaup.php

I guess I just would just consider you guys coders then, not hackers.

Those definitions fit newbies that use programs for bad, if you or the outside non-computer world knew what real "hackers" were then those definitions would way different! Yeah, Security Consultants that come in for companies to penetration test there web-servers? Perlox you obviously don't know much of anything when it comes to "hacking". Just because BinRev isn't posting illegal ways into peoples web-server doesn't mean we are coders. :P

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do you mean that binrev forum members aren't posting exploits? exploits themselves aren't illegal.

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We /can/ post exploits--

The process of finding the exploit can have curiosity, research, analysis, knowledge, the creation of new ideas, the discovery of amazing breakthroughs, and the sharing of information involved in it.

We wouldn't post an exploit just to everyone can use it and reinforce the media's definition of 'hacker,' it would be posted so everyone can learn how it works and whatnot.

:)

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You want exploits? Go elsewhere. From your apparent level of skill, I'd use Metasploit, because point-n-click sploits seem to be the best for you.

I don't think I've ever seen exploit code on Binrev, because this is a place for learning, not being a skiddy.

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You want exploits? Go elsewhere. From your apparent level of skill, I'd use Metasploit, because point-n-click sploits seem to be the best for you.

I don't think I've ever seen exploit code on Binrev, because this is a place for learning, not being a skiddy.

There has been exploit code, but it was sent to the exploitie and was also created by binrev members.

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definition of hacking:

Unauthorized use, or attempts to circumvent or bypass the security mechanisms of an information system or network.

www.tsl.state.tx.us/ld/pubs/compsecurity/glossary.html

Hacking means illegally accessing other people's computer systems for destroying, disrupting or carrying out illegal activities on the network or computer systems.

www.infosec.gov.hk/english/general/glossary_gj.htm

This term is used to indicate breaking into computers or computer networks by avoiding safety measures. Persons who perform the act of hacking, are called hackers.

english.mediadesign.nl/helpdesk/glossary/

The slang term used to describe illegal access of computer systems by unauthorised users.

www.digital-commitment.co.uk/digital-commitment-glossary-of-internet-terms-h.html

The process of a person trying to break into a secure computer system.

www.angelsoft.org.uk/ictmiddleschool/Double/glossary.htm

Accessing illegally or without authorization computers, accounts, equipment or networks belonging to another party, or attempting to penetrate security measures of another system. ...

www.searcycafe.com/wifiaup.php

I guess I just would just consider you guys coders then, not hackers.

You're a tool to the media and nothing more. If you knew anything other than how to google you know there are hats to hackers, and the people you defined are considered black-hats, or crackers. How about researching on sites run by hackers huh?

You want exploits? Go elsewhere. From your apparent level of skill, I'd use Metasploit, because point-n-click sploits seem to be the best for you.

I don't think I've ever seen exploit code on Binrev, because this is a place for learning, not being a skiddy.

Aren't you arrogant. Who said exploiting isn't hacking? An exploit can be found and knowledge can be gained from it. Therefore it is still hacking. Way to go. You're no better than the guy I just flamed. Who said metasploit framework is a skiddie tool? Sure it's nice for skiddies. But it's useful for ITs and developers too. Why don't you go back to school kid.

To answer the OP's question. We don't help scrubs hack their boxes because that's basically handing them a tool to revenge, passing blame to us if they get caught. In other words liability is a factor here too. It's also not the "hacker way" to just hand someone an answer to a problem. Helping, is not always answering. Deep down hacking is a culture, and beyond that a way of life. It's not just some geek breaking into peoples boxes. Believe it or not there has been research showing there is a "hacker personality".

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html

That website does a good job at explaining some of the facets.

Edited by deadc0de
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Yeah I know I'm new here but I hate it when people on forums like this pretend like they just use their knowledge for "ethical" reasons. Thats a bunch of bullshit if you ask me. Anyways, I already got in, it was pretty much a sinch, and if you guys think I'm some inexperienced newbie, I believe your wrong. I had a simple question, and all I wanted was a simple answer, instead I got all this bullshit saying how it was the schools network and what not.

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Yeah I know I'm new here but I hate it when people on forums like this pretend like they just use their knowledge for "ethical" reasons. Thats a bunch of bullshit if you ask me. Anyways, I already got in, it was pretty much a sinch, and if you guys think I'm some inexperienced newbie, I believe your wrong. I had a simple question, and all I wanted was a simple answer, instead I got all this bullshit saying how it was the schools network and what not.

Well look at you all big bad and full of shit ... You found the password that some left behind .. You did not hack anything. The network was there, the password was there, all you had to do was hit a few keys and skiddie on in ... Its people like you that make real hackers throw up ...

Heres where I stand on the network. Last year, some stupid moron from yearbook left the administrator login password on a post-it note. I try it out and it works.

So you did nothing ...

Then you post:

Theres like 25 computers in the lab, and I have admin privileges on all of them locally. Turns out the admin password for the network that got changed still works if logging onto the local machine.

If that is so, you should already have admin rights, or so I would think ... So STFU n00b ...

If you were as big and bad as you want to sound:

Yeah I know I'm new here but I hate it when people on forums like this pretend like they just use their knowledge for "ethical" reasons. Thats a bunch of bullshit if you ask me. Anyways, I already got in, it was pretty much a sinch, and if you guys think I'm some inexperienced newbie, I believe your wrong. I had a simple question, and all I wanted was a simple answer, instead I got all this bullshit saying how it was the schools network and what not.

This would be no problem for you ... So go on Superman .. Hack That Shit ...

Edited by Majest|c
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I'm pretty much gonna stick with my first post. Using other's equipment for free is a privilege, not a right.

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I don't understand the self-righteous attitude from the OP. If someone is providing you with a set of free tools and services, (the government-run school in this case) and you are not a part of the team providing the service, then why on earth would you complain about it? And then complain again when someone refuses to help you on an ethical basis. Look, our point is not that what you're doing is wrong, circumventing networks that are available to us is how most of us learn. It's why you're doing it; playing pranks is still black hatting (there is no grey area).

Instead why not try changing your motives? Instead of being the antithesis of this network admin why not courteously use your skill to audit his network and leave a friendly .txt file on the desktop with flaws and how your broke in and what to do to fix it. Then go to him in person and re-explain everything. You'd be amazed at how revealing yourself in person can turn someone's initial anger around. And even if you think big bad Netadmin is out to get you then try and realize that he sees your intentions just like we did; malicious, and probably thinks of you as a threat. Show him you're not a threat by politely pointing out security holes. And if he doesn't want you to after you've tried with the whitest hat on that you can, leave him and his network alone. You can't force your help on someone anymore than you can force your revenge.

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I don't understand the self-righteous attitude from the OP. If someone is providing you with a set of free tools and services, (the government-run school in this case) and you are not a part of the team providing the service, then why on earth would you complain about it? And then complain again when someone refuses to help you on an ethical basis. Look, our point is not that what you're doing is wrong, circumventing networks that are available to us is how most of us learn. It's why you're doing it; playing pranks is still black hatting (there is no grey area).

Instead why not try changing your motives? Instead of being the antithesis of this network admin why not courteously use your skill to audit his network and leave a friendly .txt file on the desktop with flaws and how your broke in and what to do to fix it. Then go to him in person and re-explain everything. You'd be amazed at how revealing yourself in person can turn someone's initial anger around. And even if you think big bad Netadmin is out to get you then try and realize that he sees your intentions just like we did; malicious, and probably thinks of you as a threat. Show him you're not a threat by politely pointing out security holes. And if he doesn't want you to after you've tried with the whitest hat on that you can, leave him and his network alone. You can't force your help on someone anymore than you can force your revenge.

Well actually, as much as I would like that second paragraph to be true, telling the network admin that he isn't a good network admin is a bad idea. (He'll most likely interpret it that way and get you suspended or something.)

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I don't understand the self-righteous attitude from the OP. If someone is providing you with a set of free tools and services, (the government-run school in this case) and you are not a part of the team providing the service, then why on earth would you complain about it? And then complain again when someone refuses to help you on an ethical basis. Look, our point is not that what you're doing is wrong, circumventing networks that are available to us is how most of us learn. It's why you're doing it; playing pranks is still black hatting (there is no grey area).

Instead why not try changing your motives? Instead of being the antithesis of this network admin why not courteously use your skill to audit his network and leave a friendly .txt file on the desktop with flaws and how your broke in and what to do to fix it. Then go to him in person and re-explain everything. You'd be amazed at how revealing yourself in person can turn someone's initial anger around. And even if you think big bad Netadmin is out to get you then try and realize that he sees your intentions just like we did; malicious, and probably thinks of you as a threat. Show him you're not a threat by politely pointing out security holes. And if he doesn't want you to after you've tried with the whitest hat on that you can, leave him and his network alone. You can't force your help on someone anymore than you can force your revenge.

See, not everybody's reaction will be okay that you broke into their computer and invaded their privacy! By the sound of this guy I don't think he would be too much of a happy camper.

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I don't understand the self-righteous attitude from the OP. If someone is providing you with a set of free tools and services, (the government-run school in this case) and you are not a part of the team providing the service, then why on earth would you complain about it? And then complain again when someone refuses to help you on an ethical basis. Look, our point is not that what you're doing is wrong, circumventing networks that are available to us is how most of us learn. It's why you're doing it; playing pranks is still black hatting (there is no grey area).

Instead why not try changing your motives? Instead of being the antithesis of this network admin why not courteously use your skill to audit his network and leave a friendly .txt file on the desktop with flaws and how your broke in and what to do to fix it. Then go to him in person and re-explain everything. You'd be amazed at how revealing yourself in person can turn someone's initial anger around. And even if you think big bad Netadmin is out to get you then try and realize that he sees your intentions just like we did; malicious, and probably thinks of you as a threat. Show him you're not a threat by politely pointing out security holes. And if he doesn't want you to after you've tried with the whitest hat on that you can, leave him and his network alone. You can't force your help on someone anymore than you can force your revenge.

its a private school. And my netadmin knows that I am a hacker and he often challenges me. For example: "Hey Tom, Lets see you get through the new firewall I just set up" Our school is so small no one even gives a crap. Im not doing this on a public school level where 2 thousand kids attend. And for whoever it was that said that I just skipped my way in and Im the type of person that makes real hackers throw up. Obviously you dont understand what I meant in my op. I have admin access to each lab computer as a standalone, not on the network. Yes I've tried accessing the network from the standalone, but my netadmin has all kinds of crap blocking access to set up a connection. And as for the password I found on the post-it, my netadmin found out that someone had left the note out, and changed the password immediately. My school has also set up a very powerful SonicWALL and they set it up right. Yet I still managed to achieve unrestricted access to the internet. I am no newbie, and I consider it an insult for somebody to call me one.

Edited by wanderer
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I don't understand the self-righteous attitude from the OP. If someone is providing you with a set of free tools and services, (the government-run school in this case) and you are not a part of the team providing the service, then why on earth would you complain about it? And then complain again when someone refuses to help you on an ethical basis. Look, our point is not that what you're doing is wrong, circumventing networks that are available to us is how most of us learn. It's why you're doing it; playing pranks is still black hatting (there is no grey area).

Instead why not try changing your motives? Instead of being the antithesis of this network admin why not courteously use your skill to audit his network and leave a friendly .txt file on the desktop with flaws and how your broke in and what to do to fix it. Then go to him in person and re-explain everything. You'd be amazed at how revealing yourself in person can turn someone's initial anger around. And even if you think big bad Netadmin is out to get you then try and realize that he sees your intentions just like we did; malicious, and probably thinks of you as a threat. Show him you're not a threat by politely pointing out security holes. And if he doesn't want you to after you've tried with the whitest hat on that you can, leave him and his network alone. You can't force your help on someone anymore than you can force your revenge.

its a private school. And my netadmin knows that I am a hacker and he often challenges me. For example: "Hey Tom, Lets see you get through the new firewall I just set up" Our school is so small no one even gives a crap. Im not doing this on a public school level where 2 thousand kids attend. And for whoever it was that said that I just skipped my way in and Im the type of person that makes real hackers throw up. Obviously you dont understand what I meant in my op. I have admin access to each lab computer as a standalone, not on the network. Yes I've tried accessing the network from the standalone, but my netadmin has all kinds of crap blocking access to set up a connection. And as for the password I found on the post-it, my netadmin found out that someone had left the note out, and changed the password immediately. My school has also set up a very powerful SonicWALL and they set it up right. Yet I still managed to achieve unrestricted access to the internet. I am no newbie, and I consider it an insult for somebody to call me one.

You're a lying newbie, contorting your story with each post so you don't look as stupid.

Guess what? You look even stupider.

Stop trying to convince us that you are a 1337 hax0r, we don't really care.

(sorry if this breaks the no flaming the nubs rule)

Edited by Dejected Deity
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Don't sweat anything, guys. Information is meant to be free. If he asks a question, he has a right for an answer (if someone holding the answer is available). Withholding information is selfish.

Besides, if he wants to use the information to gain unauthorized access and gets caught, then he'll have to pay the price. The feds can't come after those that provided info. Communication (at least in the US) is a protected right. If you think you are discussing sensitive in which both parties may get in trouble, secure the communications channel. Use encryption. Only one problem stands: sometimes the knowledge of who is talking to whom (and not the details of the conversation) can be more incriminating than the conversation itself. With that in mind, you have to analyze risks before starting a single thing.

Anyways, my point is that the original poster had the right to ask his question and get a valid, truthful answer, assuming a person qualified to answer the question is available.

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You're a lying newbie, contorting your story with each post so you don't look as stupid.

Dude you don't have any proof of that. If you've got a hunch then the only evidence you see is that which supports your hunch.

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