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Piracy

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If you're not going to purchase it (or even have the means to), the creators are not loosing any money. It makes no difference to a business whether or not I pirate their software, because I would never purchase it. People are always so skeptical about the theft that is being committed when someone pirates software, but why isn't the theft that is committed during a purchase of software accounted?

We are very like-minded individuals. My point exactly (as posted). I still stand by it, even after reading all the posts in this topic.

see the way i see it, i love to buy cds and movies. but i dont generally have alot of money. so i buy used cds and dvs before anything else. but the thing with used dvds and cds is that they have already been bought. now the only money being made is that of the retailer. but sometimes i cant find a movie or cd or its too expensive, so i get it online. i dont feel it hurts anyone because if i didnt pirate the cd or movie, id get it used, and theyd make no money anyways.

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I downloaded a lot of stuff, but ended up using them only once because a lot of them suck.

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If you're not going to purchase it (or even have the means to), the creators are not loosing any money. It makes no difference to a business whether or not I pirate their software, because I would never purchase it. People are always so skeptical about the theft that is being committed when someone pirates software, but why isn't the theft that is committed during a purchase of software accounted?

We are very like-minded individuals. My point exactly (as posted). I still stand by it, even after reading all the posts in this topic.

see the way i see it, i love to buy cds and movies. but i dont generally have alot of money. so i buy used cds and dvs before anything else. but the thing with used dvds and cds is that they have already been bought. now the only money being made is that of the retailer. but sometimes i cant find a movie or cd or its too expensive, so i get it online. i dont feel it hurts anyone because if i didnt pirate the cd or movie, id get it used, and theyd make no money anyways.

A good number of you know my email @unrealdestination.com

I am a HUGE unreal fan. I love the classic game so much, I've bought 10 copies off ebay to give away. I will support good software for the most part when it's realistic for me to buy it (aka in my budget).

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Intelligent piracy is something I do all the time.

I do extended trials, but I ALWAYS purchase the product. Maybe it's a day, a week, a year.

I'll still buy it.

For instance, if I download a song that I like, I'll go and buy it.

But for me, the 30 seconds Itunes preview is just not enough.

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i support pirating material as long as the pirate seeds the material for awhile.

but its starting to be aparent that pirated material has its pros, material thats being pirated tends to become more popular quickly

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As you can see, providing corporation support is enough to generate massive income for a company.
In this limited example.

We've already conceded that support is a viable profit factor in some (rare) situations, it was never really in doubt.

Too though you must concede that the approach will not work in all situations.

Information wants to be free but programmers must still put bread on the table and CEOs still want their third vacation home.

To introduce some other software so that you might see the point, Microsoft Office 2003 (how I loath 2007).

You upload the pre-packed .msi et all to some network share, customize the install script to your likings (remove clippy and SharePoint and any stupid toolbars and language bars that should never have been part of the default). You track the licenses with management software or by hand if you are masochistic, unless the company has a site or world license - who knows. Regardless, you set up automated remote installs on all of the required workstations including the newest service packs and security updates, additional dictionaries and plug-ins.

Then you are done. That's it. It's been deployed company wide - any individual issues (low disk space, low ram, conflicting software) are dealt with per case and should never require paid vendor support.

From a 'home' standpoint it is not much different. You insert the install disk, choose the options you want, provide a serial and keep clicking next. Give it 5 minutes and the software is installed, use the inbuilt windows update agent to grab the newest security patches and you are done. If you require support hit 'F1' and a help wizard will come up guiding you through any task you can possibly think of. If that is too much work you can go to the store and buy a book or I suppose Google the feature in question you don't understand. Or find anyone over the age of 3 to show you how.

Where is the money for Microsoft in giving these products away or supplementing their income by providing support.

The phone-center, even in India, would cost them more then any support funds I can see coming in?

It is far more profitable to offer limited support (requiring you provide a valid serial) and charge mainly for the licensing.

There is in effect a carrot-and-stick approach:

If you buy the product en-mass you receive significant discounts. (Home users are screwed but what else is new).

However, if one of your disgruntled ex-employees were to turn you in (for a profit might I add) you will be slapped with a HUGE licensing fee, bad press, other penalties and quite possibly jail-time.

Industrial piracy is not just worth the risk to any serious company briefly considering it.

They'll pay for the product and likely buy unnecessary support 'just in case' - it's all deductible anyways.

Even home users can deduct the costs, everyone should have a home-business to write off a portion of their living space as a home-office and deduct software expenses among other things (like fuel and business lunches). There is a system in place to help you, blame yourself if you haven't bothered to look into it. Come tax time you can end up with much money coming back, find a good accountant and they pay for themselves. If I recall Stank also brought some of this up recently in another thread? :)

----

Red Hat is a good example of an alternative business model, but one that very few others will fit into and fewer still are in a position to attempt. There are those on this board likely reading this thread, who use pirated software who obviously don't need support for it, where is the vendor to be paid then? Not out of my pocket, not out of yours?

The vendors have to incorporate the cost of pirates into their equation and increase the costs to legitimate customers.

As we have concluded not 'all pirated copies equate to a lost sale' but how many do?

Forced between to pay for Photoshop or struggle with GIMP, I would go with the Adobe solution.

Were I to pirate Photoshop (not that I would) - there is a lost sale.

(Unfortunately for either, I prefer Paint Shop Pro having tried all three. An excellent middle ground, the licensing is even reasonable.).

Lucky for the pirates it costs more to enforce and go after them then they make back in settlements, large busts being mainly a publicity show. 'Look we are still seeking out pirates, ooOoOOoo *ghost sounds*', keeping in line the sheep.

One could even say, though that this is no excuse, that your average home user often pirates materials used by professionals because the "home edition" of the same product has so much usefulness cut out (albeit almost as expensive as the professional addition) so it really makes no sense to even buy it. The biggest companies to do this are microshaft and Adobe. Adobe has their elements like, for 500 dollars less than the standard edition of the same tool. But at the same time everything that makes that peice of software good has been cut out to mitigate the high price, which in the end is still high. Microshaft is known for this as well with their Visual Studio lines. You can download a "slim" version of visual studio from the microsoft website for free, which has all the looks but none of the brawn of the real Visual Studio. The free version has no support for win32 programming and you can only write in CPP/CLI (if I remember correctly) where as the full version allows everything.

That type of feature to price trade-off almost justifies piracy. If companies want less piracy make more affordable (AND STILL USEFUL) software. It's that easy.

However, with open source software on the rise we may just see an end to major piracy. If the OSS revolution continues to advance like it has it may very well beat the corperate sponsored product it is modelled after.

Edited by deadc0de
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I have only been known to pirate something in only certain circumstances. Which in one way or another reflex the "Consumer" ideals Stank has already mentioned.

It must fall into these strict guidelines for me to considering pirating an option.

1) its out of print

2) Abandon ware

3) its not available for purchase to US citizens

4) sampling before buying

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alot of the music i movies i used to pirate were old obscure bands youd never find anywhere. or movies that you can get in america for whatever reason or they are really hard to get. i mean, where else would you get a copy of salo completely unedited?

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I am sorry guys but piracy is bad... I mean it's just BAD.

It's not these big pirates that go and sell there stuff or the mass "pirating" that is preformed by some individuals.... it's all the little ones. It's all of us that go and justify stealing the software by saying "Oh, i just sample it then I buy it". While this may be true in SOME cases, I can guarantee that this practice is not the "norm". The majority of pirates that I have seen/know are in fact laymen looking for a freebe... and nothing more. Sure, certain software companies (like Microsoft) make shitty software and then over charge for it but that does not give anybody permission to steal it. (Why would you WANT to pirate an M$ product any way??) Now, that is software... what about Music? Same thing. Music is Music, shitty or not.

Sure, they may catch the BIG pirates but in the end are those the ones that completely change the industries outlook on it's consumers? No... rarely if EVER is it just one or maybe three pirating rings that change an industries outlook on it's target market...it's all the ones that DON'T get caught that make the difference. It's all of us, who pirate and subvert the system WITHOUT getting caught, that are the problem. It's the individuals that undermine the trust of the company that force it, to change it's policies and make it harder for hackers, pirates and ordinary people to use.

--p0d

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I have only been known to pirate something in only certain circumstances. Which in one way or another reflex the "Consumer" ideals Stank has already mentioned.

It must fall into these strict guidelines for me to considering pirating an option.

1) its out of print

2) Abandon ware

3) its not available for purchase to US citizens

4) sampling before buying

I'm the same way.

Also people who download stuff cause they think it "sucks" and should be free

are retard. Why would you download and watch/listen media that suck?. I don't know

The thing is why are we buying into pure crap. I never really go to the movies.

I buy or download mainstream media. I buy music form small labels.

Why would you buy "top 40" shit. Anyway i'm going on a rant.

But when it comes to software, you can just get free software.

There tons of it,just ask RMS. Unless you bought a pc w/o a windows disk.

Then download the ISO. Whatever there's my 2 cents

/pointless rant

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