Octal

Video Editing

26 posts in this topic

I was talking about this on IRC yesterday, didn't really spark a huge conversation.

I used to use Vegas 6.0 on our home computer (windows), and then I started using Linux, and I don't have Vegas 6.0, nor do I have support for .wmv videos on a GNU/Linux platform, inwich all m video files on our home computer are .wmv. I was thinking of dual booting Windows and GNU/Linux, but that preferred because of cost. I have sufficent requirements to run windows on this box though, 1 GIG of total RAM, 120 GIG of total harddrive, so that isn't a problem.

I have heard of Cinerella, and it's supposed to be like Adobe Premire. I have never used it, but Adobe Premire is very professional, is it not?

Thanks for reading, I'm a bit confused on what to do for video editing, and would like some input on this.

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I attempted to do video editing on linux, but right now, its in its infancy.

Cinerella is there. LIVE is there, I know there are more, I've used them, just can't think of the names.

In short, keep a Windows box around for video editing, its much much easier.

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ok when you say video editing, how much editing/ what type of editing do you want to be able to do?

As I have said, I have used Vegas before, which is the quality of software I use. It cane be from something 3 minutes long, to a full length DVD.

So dual boot is the best option?

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If you weren't doing something as processor intensive as video editing I'd tell you to check out VMware and run Windows virtually but, with only 1GB that's not really feasible in this situation.

Dual Boot FTW.

Or you could just scrap that machine and buy a Mac. (insert smiley killing himself here)

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a mac mini is not a bad idea if you can get one or even a used mac laptop, I got my mini back in early january and it has tools neccessary to do basic video editing, podcats making , and more. And you can more than likely dual boot linux on a mini ; ]

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If you weren't doing something as processor intensive as video editing I'd tell you to check out VMware and run Windows virtually but, with only 1GB that's not really feasible in this situation.

Dual Boot FTW.

Or you could just scrap that machine and buy a Mac. (insert smiley killing himself here)

probably not the best idea since rendering any video would take forever

-Enigma

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a mac mini is not a bad idea if you can get one or even a used mac laptop, I got my mini back in early january and it has tools neccessary to do basic video editing, podcats making , and more. And you can more than likely dual boot linux on a mini ; ]

Yeah, maybe if I could afford it, and if I could I would use Final Cut, I have heard alot of good things about that. Or if I could find some way to use OS X on a PC.

So, since we are on the topic of windows, is Windows Vista any good? I mean, it has a sticker on the computer that says, "Windows Vista Capable".

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a mac mini is not a bad idea if you can get one or even a used mac laptop, I got my mini back in early january and it has tools neccessary to do basic video editing, podcats making , and more. And you can more than likely dual boot linux on a mini ; ]

Yeah, maybe if I could afford it, and if I could I would use Final Cut, I have heard alot of good things about that. Or if I could find some way to use OS X on a PC.

So, since we are on the topic of windows, is Windows Vista any good? I mean, it has a sticker on the computer that says, "Windows Vista Capable".

personally i haven't been impressed with vista from what i have seen it probably isn't worth an upgrade from xp to vista but if your buying a new machine with it pre installed maybe

-Enigma

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I have heard of Cinerella, and it's supposed to be like Adobe Premire. I have never used it, but Adobe Premire is very professional, is it not?

Thanks for reading, I'm a bit confused on what to do for video editing, and would like some input on this.

Cinelerra isn't like Adobe Premiere at all. Yes, Premiere is professional tools (though professionals will always cite Avid's stuff as the be-all end-all.)

Jahkasha holds some promise, but has some big stability issues.

Simply said, no product on the Linux platform comes even close to Premiere/Final Cut. All you need really is the ability to click 'n drag videos, and the ability to cut anywhere. Cinelerra can't do this - it has a very archaic way of cutting and setting clips. And they call it the best there is for video editing on Linux.

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Thanks for reading, I'm a bit confused on what to do for video editing, and would like some input on this.

Hi,

Video editing can be quite a handful on Linux.

Assuming you want 'Free' (freedom and beer) you can use:-

Kino - Fairly simple interface, can grab video from/to MiniDV. A bit too simple for complex editing, good for family movies of the kids playing on the beach, etc.

Cinelerra - One huge MF, but *VERY* powerfull. There's a really useful tuturial (http://www.robfisher.net/video/cinelerra1.html) out there which will help a lot. If you're making a movie (or want a lot of effects) then Cinelerra might be the way to go.

The other advantage with Cinelerra is that it works by creating an 'edits XML', so you can edit/test render at low resolution and then do a final render at true resolution. Rendering can also be partitioned across multiple machines - so the college's IT lab can be put to good use over a weekend.

If you want to try either/both of these out they are both on the excellent Dyne:Bolic live CD (http://www.dynebolic.org/).

Cheers,

Mungewell.

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whoops... forgot to reference:

MainActor - Commerical/cross platform. Haven't tried myself, but supposidly fairly good.

Mungewell.

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a mac mini is not a bad idea if you can get one or even a used mac laptop, I got my mini back in early january and it has tools neccessary to do basic video editing, podcats making , and more. And you can more than likely dual boot linux on a mini ; ]

Yeah, maybe if I could afford it, and if I could I would use Final Cut, I have heard alot of good things about that. Or if I could find some way to use OS X on a PC.

So, since we are on the topic of windows, is Windows Vista any good? I mean, it has a sticker on the computer that says, "Windows Vista Capable".

Its alright , and if your planing to buy a copy get buisness it comes with aero but not media center/other non neccesities ;] I got buisness edition and so far happy with it.

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And with only 120 gigs you aren't going to be able to do a lot of editing. Assuming you want room for your Linux partition to do stuff on and then have an install of windows, you're already using up about 10 gigs for just the install. You are going to want at least 80 gigs dedicated to only your windows partition just so that you can store the raw video you capture, the stuff you are working on and the encoded video. And this is assuming you don't plan on working on more than one or two projects at a time. And like the others have said, there really is nothing that compares to Premiere or Final Cut on Linux as far as I know.

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And with only 120 gigs you aren't going to be able to do a lot of editing. Assuming you want room for your Linux partition to do stuff on and then have an install of windows, you're already using up about 10 gigs for just the install. You are going to want at least 80 gigs dedicated to only your windows partition just so that you can store the raw video you capture, the stuff you are working on and the encoded video. And this is assuming you don't plan on working on more than one or two projects at a time. And like the others have said, there really is nothing that compares to Premiere or Final Cut on Linux as far as I know.

And if I'm not running Vista:

Vegas 6.0:

200 MB hard-disk space for program installation

XP:

1.5 gigabytes (GB) of available hard disk space*

And then I doubt I will use up the remaining 50 some gigs of a windows partition just on video clips.

So I'm off soon to get XP, instead of vista, because of the price.

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Octal you must not have done a lot of editing. Raw video is HUGE! You says you've only dealt with wmv encoding before, that format is incredibly compressed and when you start using mpeg or xvid you will begin using a lot more space up. Not to mention you are going to want another couple hundred megs of other software installed in windows; image editing, encoding, codecs, random utilities you will need.

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Octal you must not have done a lot of editing. Raw video is HUGE! You says you've only dealt with wmv encoding before, that format is incredibly compressed and when you start using mpeg or xvid you will begin using a lot more space up. Not to mention you are going to want another couple hundred megs of other software installed in windows; image editing, encoding, codecs, random utilities you will need.

I've heard of dj's having 10 500 gigs external drived networked because of raw audio size, and he had a decked out mac pro (prob big hd on that 2 ). But then again thats photos but raw anything I guess takes lots of space.

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Raw video is HUGE!

That's true... but to be fair, most home movie producers will probably be working with Mini-DV which is around 10GByte per hour.

Once produced movie can be pushed back to MiniDV for archieve or encoded down to DVD (MPEG2 ~ 2.5GByte per hour). Hell you can even use a MiniDV machine to backup plain data if you want.

Munge.

PS. If Seal is reading, I'd be really interested in a write up of the making of 'On Piracy & The Future of Media'. How much 'footage' he shot, what he used to edit, how long it all took, etc...

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Ya i'm still trying to find the best video editing and even audio editing...coming from a world of using Cool Edit/Audition and premiere pro 2.

http://www.ubuntustudio.com/ looks interesting...

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Raw video is HUGE!

That's true... but to be fair, most home movie producers will probably be working with Mini-DV which is around 10GByte per hour.

Once produced movie can be pushed back to MiniDV for archieve or encoded down to DVD (MPEG2 ~ 2.5GByte per hour). Hell you can even use a MiniDV machine to backup plain data if you want.

Munge.

PS. If Seal is reading, I'd be really interested in a write up of the making of 'On Piracy & The Future of Media'. How much 'footage' he shot, what he used to edit, how long it all took, etc...

Unless you are using like windows movie maker, most higher end editing software (premiere) will capture form minidv to uncompressed filetypes. Even if you aren't capturing an hours worth of video, you should expect a normal video project to be around 25-30 gigs depending on how involved it is and how long it is.

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most higher end editing software (premiere) will capture form minidv to uncompressed filetypes.

That's a bit bizaar.... what's the point of that?

Assuming that you're working with an 'edit list' system which only processes the edits when you hit the 'render' button, you won't gain anything in image quality (over the original format).

I'm not saying that this is right or wrong, I'm just wondering why they would do that...

Munge.

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Because compression sucks period. Any video or audio editing i do completely raw. I want that master copy all the time. Compression is for the internet and mpeg2 dvd quality. Editing any kind of compression files usually takes too long or has issues loading sometimes. The only good compression editing i've ever seen is with apple's editing software. but even that is Apple's own quicktime format designed for their editing software.

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Because compression sucks period.

You seem to missing my point... If you've used a MiniDV to shoot the original footage it's ALREADY compressed (fairly lightly and on a frame-by-frame basis similar to MJPEG). Whatever you do in the editing CAN NOT improve the image quality.

Using an 'edit list' type software you don't actually process the video whilst you're deciding on the edits/effects/etc.... this is only done when you hit the render button at which point the 20 hours of footage will actually only result in (say) 20mins.

If you want to render to 'uncompressed' that's fine, but ultimately you won't get better than the original encoding and realistically MiniDV is actually pretty good quality. If you want to compress down to 40Kbps divX then the quality is going to suffer.

If your application has problems with compressed streams, then that's down the application - not necessarily down to the source material.

What you may have experienced is problems with MPEG2/4, which has a 'GOP' structure. Not every frame is encoded 'standalone'. MPEG uses 3 types of frame (I, B and P) - I are full frames compressed, P are further compressed (refering the previous I frame) and B are extremely compressed (basically only containing motion vectors).

When you attempt to edit MPEG2/4 you are likely to see a huge amount of artifacts as this format is really only intended for a continous stream, expecting your eye/brain to mask all the horrible stuff.

---

So refering to my (pretty limited) experience with Cinelerra I spent a fair amount of time doing cutting and adding effects, such as fades and zooms, I added some audio and titles etc.... all without affecting the source material.

I then rendered this down to MiniDV and exported back to camera for archive. The 'camera route' also enabled a fairly high quality VHS (oxymoron) to be made for 'give away'.

I also encoded the MiniDV stream into MPEG2 to burn to DVD and added a few DVD titles etc....

All this was done with Free software and wasn't too complicated.

The biggest technical problem was the fact that the MiniDV encoding from Cinelerra wasn't as good as the source material (I guess Sony know what they're doing) and as Cinelerra only re-encodes the frames it needs to there was a slight jump/difference in image quality as (for example) a fade ended.

This could have been solved by rendering to a raw (uncompressed) format and using an alternative encoder, but the easier route was to apply a null-effect to the whole movie - forcing Cinelerra to re-encode every frame.

Technically the I thought the result was pretty good, I'll leave judgement on the content to the those who have seen it....

It's fairly easy to knock Cinelerra on first impressions of the interface, however if you take a little time to muck around and get to know it, you'll find that it is very powerfull. If someone wants to spend some cash on Premier, then that's their business.

Munge.

PS. Yes I am an Free/Open Source Nut.

PPS. Dyne:Bolic 2.4 was released last week and now has an XFCE desktop :-) <- big smile!

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As I have said, I have used Vegas before, which is the quality of software I use. It cane be from something 3 minutes long, to a full length DVD.

So dual boot is the best option?

Or use Xen. No need to dual-boot.

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As I have said, I have used Vegas before, which is the quality of software I use. It cane be from something 3 minutes long, to a full length DVD.

So dual boot is the best option?

Or use Xen. No need to dual-boot.

Do you have any idea what you are talking about or are you just stupid? There is no way in hell with even the top of the line desktops that you could have a decent virtualized editing system. Not to mention you don't have direct access to the hardware on the computer for the most part.

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