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Divo

(free)BSD

33 posts in this topic

Before I start i want to apologise if this becomes a bit of an essay.

Today, because of hardware issues, I did a little research into BSD, particularly FreeBSD. I liked what i read. The development model and Ports Tree really appeal to me. But before I go and put it on my box I'd like a few questions answered and to hear a few personal opinions. (To late, but before i get to stuck in)

1) Development. Is developing on BSD anyway similar to developing on Linux. I'm not talking about deployment, I'm talking about sockets and kernel interactions, stuff like that. I know that C is C, but it has to change with the environment (yes?) Is there anything majorly complex about it? The thing I'm most interested is documentation. I'm just starting to learn how to program, and was wondering if BSD is a newbie friendly/tolerant environment in which to learn. Most of the "Learn C" type books center around a Windows environment and sometimes Linux (Except K&R, i know that much)

2) Basic operation. Does BSD take a while to get used to. Is it fairly simple or does it take a lot of abstract thought?

Like i said, I have done some research but I really want to hear some personal opinions.

Thanks in advance. :)

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FreeBSD is a lot like Linux (or is it the other way around?). They are different operating systems, but they're both *nix systems. From a top-down view, they're very similar. Much of that is due to the fact that they use a lot of the same software on top of the kernel. You can still run Bash, KDE, etc, or whatever you're used to on Linux. It uses GCC, so no differences there. From a user's point of view, they're very similar systems. From a programmer's point of view, again, they're very similar. The same socket API is used (with some minor differences probably not worth worrying about), a libc that does the same thing (though I don't think they use GNU libc) plus some extra functions, and the same third party libraries can be used. If you've used Linux before, you'll have no problems switching to FreeBSD.

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FreeBSD is a lot like Linux (or is it the other way around?). They are different operating systems, but they're both *nix systems. From a top-down view, they're very similar. Much of that is due to the fact that they use a lot of the same software on top of the kernel. You can still run Bash, KDE, etc, or whatever you're used to on Linux. It uses GCC, so no differences there. From a user's point of view, they're very similar systems. From a programmer's point of view, again, they're very similar. The same socket API is used (with some minor differences probably not worth worrying about), a libc that does the same thing (though I don't think they use GNU libc) plus some extra functions, and the same third party libraries can be used. If you've used Linux before, you'll have no problems switching to FreeBSD.

That makes me want to try it. Never used any *BSDs before, but VMware has a few virtual appliances to test it out. I may do that one of these days.

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yeah, and if your compiling a application package that requires the GNU version of make you'll have to use gmake. '(gmake = GNU make)

BSD uses BSD's version of make :spawn1: no need to worry thou. Install Linux binary compatibly on *BSD if you think you

might want to run Linux applications on your BSD box.

But once you get the BSD way of thinking, you'll love it. While you at it try OpenBSD and NetBSD as well.

I started out with FreeBSD, and tried the others and found that I like NetBSD more than the others for a development environment.

Now I wouldn't give BSD, for Linux unless I'm force to. Don't get me wrong, I like Linux as long as it not rpm-based. I hated the whole

rpm system of managing packages. That's why if I must use Linux, it'll be Debian or Slackware for me.

But enjoy FreeBSD maybe it'll conform to your way of thinking or the other way around. Have phun basically :lol:

Edited by phax
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Thanks. This information has a been very help full.

Another quick question. I read that BSD power managmet is kind of lacking. Does BSD fail at teh laptop? Because thats what i'm hearing. ( Can anyone recommend a particularly good OS/Distro to put on a laptop, besides OS X and Windows).

I presume its fairly simple to duel boot with windows? Google seems to think so.

Thanks again.

[Edit] Almost forgot. Does it have Flash Player 9 support, because i can't seem to find any.

Edited by Divo
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If BSD can use the same programs as GNU/Linux, then what's the diffrence for some of those?

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If BSD can use the same programs as GNU/Linux, then what's the diffrence for some of those?

As far as userspace programs go, there isn't much difference. FreeBSD can not only run the same software compiled from source, it also has a compatability layer and can run Linux binaries directly. Like I said, they're very similar, can do similar things, and are used to solve similar problems.

The main difference is philosophy. FreeBSD development often happens more slowly. Linux kernel development often seems to take the first solution that comes along, in the next kernel version it might be completely different. FreeBSD takes things more carefully, so in some ways they're behind the curve. In other ways, because of careful development, they can get solid software to a working state faster than the trial and error method, so they're ahead of the curve. FreeBSD also integrates successful technologies from other sources whenever possible. Good example are the pf packet filter from OpenBSD and the dtrace debugger from Solaris (which will be ported for FreeBSD 7).

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i am using both freebsd and slackware 11 at the same time.

they are almost identical, and if you dont know the command for freebsd, try google it like:

"dhcpcd for freebsd"

obviously replace the command with the one you know in linux and then add a "for freebsd" on at the end.

take it from me, it should only take you a dew days if not one day to get used to freebsd.

hope it helps

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replying to Divo's questions.

erm, in my experience freebsd is the only laptop that works with the philips freevents x55, x65 or x52

i think hardware support is good with freebsd. and yea, dual-booting is fairly simple. just read some tutorials and

you'll be able to get it done perfectly the way you you want it.

but the downfall is multimedia, it has poor support for videos, flash plugins and codecs for browsers.

Edited by bsd-roo
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Socket programming on FreeBSD and Linux is quite the same. The difference between the two implementations is historical, the FreeBSD socket implementation is derived from the BSD4.4LITE while Linux's implementation was written from scratch. If you want to know more about this, buy Unix Network Programming, it covers socket programming for a lot of different Unix platforms at the same time. The author mentions differences between implementations, and give historical reasons for these. But in all, the code is just about the same, and there are just a few exceptions you don't really need to worry about (such as default timeouts being set to a different value on different platforms)

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replying to Divo's questions.

erm, in my experience freebsd is the only laptop that works with the philips freevents x55, x65 or x52

Ye, its an x56 im trying to get working :) . I have a slack install, but it cant mount externl drives, cant probe harware etc. I gather that it hangs when probing the ethernet card.

Is BSD anygood for laptops though? (Battery)

Edited by Divo
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yea, thats what i heard, i wonder when they are going to have a fix for that.

i think in terms of battery life, freebsd runs only starts X when you tell it to which i think means that if u like working in command lines, then

i suppose that it can be easy on the battery.

but i will have to tell u the bad news..... i dnt think you can run it with ACPI enabled.

so you wnt be able to check the status of the battery.

bit of a bitch, i know, but hey, atleast u can run a form of unix on ur laptop!!

freebsd is highly recommended.

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Looks like no BSD for my laptop then. Ubuntu 5.10 does however work on this machine. It may not be what i want, but its a start :)

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NO, what i mean was that in order for freebsd to run with the philips X series laptops

ACPI has to be disabled.

and yes i do know that u can tell freebsd to startx if you want it to,

i am saying maybe it saves battery life, NOT THAT IT DOES HAVE XSERVER.

please follow the conversation.

if you are here solely because you are on a flaming mission after a hard day then go somewhere else, i am here trying to express my experience so that

someone else who has the same laptop version having the same problem that i had and telling him what i did to get round that.

Edited by bsd-roo
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NO, what i mean was that in order for freebsd to run with the philips X series laptops

ACPI has to be disabled.

and yes i do know that u can tell freebsd to startx if you want it to,

i am saying maybe it saves battery life, NOT THAT IT DOES HAVE XSERVER.

please follow the conversation.

if you are here solely because you are on a flaming mission after a hard day then go somewhere else, i am here trying to express my experience so that

someone else who has the same laptop version having the same problem that i had and telling him what i did to get round that.

hmm. looks like someone hit a soft spot.

But seriously, without prior knowledge and looking at what tiocsti posted, I don't see why you can't get it working with some tweaking. Like I said, without prior knowledge.... I may be wrong though.

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yea, i agree ALK3

i do not mean to be rude, just that when people concentrate on flaming people for helping others and giving opinions instead of trying to help

gets on my nerves. :P

i apologize for my rudeness everyone.

maybe there is a way round it, but from booting at installation, it works when you turn off APCI.

and i googled the problem, alot of people seems to be having the same problem with this series of laptop.

i haven't come across any solutions yet.

but i remembered that X server did not work out of the box with my graphics card and SLI mobo on my main desktop, everytime i install a new installation

i had to tweak the Xorg.conf to get it to work. and now after a few month, slackware 11 started X without anyproblem.

i just hope that the laptop issues will be fixed when they design the next releases of different distros....lazy i know.

but at the moment studying in university, i spend most of my time working hard on projects. :lol:

Edited by bsd-roo
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i bet ya Divo understand what i am talking about.

you're still not helping people, just annoying people.

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Ok, here a simple solution have you look at http://www.desktopbsd.net/

maybe try NetBSD, a friend of mine had no problems running NetBSD on that series labtop. (With some tweaking of course)

If you don't have the time try DesktopBSD, if that not what you need. Then go with a linux that you know how to run this on.

If no prior linux knowledge, to get it to working then you are really in the same boat.

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thanks for the advice, yea i heard that aparently netbsd can run on alot of different machines.

even a toaster!!!?!?

i have got freebsd up and running fine on my laptop. :voteyes:

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thanks for the advice, yea i heard that aparently netbsd can run on alot of different machines.

even a toaster!!!?!?

i have got freebsd up and running fine on my laptop. :voteyes:

Glad to hear it. \m/ ^_^ \m/

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Be sure to have a look at:

BSD handbook

And also:

bsdforums are also good.

I am using FreeBSD on a server there since Debian Sarge wont recognize my hardware (!) and meh, I feel like something different, solid, and no frills.

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thanks for the advice, yea i heard that aparently netbsd can run on alot of different machines.

even a toaster!!!?!?

i have got freebsd up and running fine on my laptop. :voteyes:

;-) Glad to hear!

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I am using FreeBSD on a server there since Debian Sarge wont recognize my hardware (!) and meh, I feel like something different, solid, and no frills.

You must have some /very/ uncommon hardware then. :P

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