Soho

Epidemic

22 posts in this topic

Allo.

A disconcerting trend involving the members of this forum has become blatantly obvious. It appears that arduous times shall befall the hacker community, due in part to the nature of the "new hacker". There appears, also, to be an exponential growth in the volume of information communicated. Ironically, the information being transferred is degrading in quality. One may reference "quality of information" as being synonymous with simple value.

Quite some time ago a handful of senior members indicated a sense of frustration with the "new members". These complaints were largely disregarded by the community, including myself; however, denial is no longer a competent answer. The problem is, possibly as a matter of course, that there are many technically illiterate, ignorant, and immature individuals seeking information about contrived "hacking" subjects.

An example:

Learning how to "hack" the cable company, aka theft, is hacking; yet, no longer does an individual ask direct questions about such a topic. No longer is one curious about the various platforms, firmware, or communication systems being used. Simply, "they" want to know how to do it, from start to end, no thought involved. Instead of giving them a step-by-step tutorial which any Imbecile could follow, teach them the fundamental concepts step by step. If one wishes to create a virus one must have a reason, an understanding of what a virus is and does, then the rest is trivial. As with the aforementioned, if the questioner has patience to learn these things, then indeed they may reap the benefits of their acquired knowledge. If not, don't make it any easier- for life by its very nature is disinclined to make things easier. What skill do you breed in men who have no knowledge? Ignorance. What is an ignorant man with no patience? He is as a flying beast without its ala.

Honestly, I once knew little of hacking, as all "of us" did at some point in time. "Flaming" "noobs" is not what I am getting at- we need to stop spoon feeding people information. If what is happening now continues to happen, most of the "real hackers" will be either too old to give two shits or working at some university. Yes these are generalizations; however, my intention is not necessarily to provide a coherent argument as to provoke thought. I am not taking this plight to the administration because I want your opinion as a member. You, the individual must come forth to make the future, your future, what it is you want it to be. Tell me what you want the future to be, and what you are doing for its cause.

:paw: Soho

Edited by Soho
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

were = past tense subjective verb, for example "we were overrun with noobs"

we're = the grammatical conjunction for 'we are', as in "we're overrun with noobs";

a present tense subjective verb

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
were = past tense subjective verb, for example "we were overrun with noobs"

we're = the grammatical conjunction for 'we are', as in "we're overrun with noobs";

a present tense subjective verb

Very well. Slightly irrelevant though.

I am glad to see that you intend to promote your future by making superfluous statements.

I am also being facetious. (as I was in my original post)

Edited by Soho
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was I supposed to get through that without laughing?

Sorry...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nothing has changed except that these forums offer a safe haven for noobs. Ten years ago I taught budding hackers the same types of things I teach them today. And nothing has changed. Of all the people I have shown "how to hack" only a few have or will ever become hackers. And nothing has changed. Not everone who asks how to hack can become hackers. In fact I would say my "conversion rate" has been less than 5%.

That's because it takes two things to become a hacker; The curiosity to find out how things really work and the intelligence to understand more than what is being taught.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see what you mean... everybody wants a turn key hack... just open this box and turn this and volla free cable... That bites... I was messing with cable boxes at one time and got sidetracked into how the bdm (background[?] diagnostic mode) functions... Never did finish trying to 'crack' the box (hardware issues)... Was more interesting (to me) how a processor could be halted and memory dumped to another machine. To me that shit is cooler then bragging to my friends I have 30 more channels to flip through with the remote control...

But in short... Are you just tired of the 'give me something for nothing' crowd?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i totally get where you're coming from, but the question is, what are you going to do about it?

i too want to find people who know what they're doing. binrev does offer safe haven for so-called "noobs", but i think that's ok. we should start identifying and collecting an assembly of people who can actually do stuff. bring back the old days :)

if you want to chat more and organize something, please find me on irc. please be aware that anything that comes out of this will not be "noob friendly". more restrictions will be put on weeding out people who either can't or won't be productive.

disclaimer: the views and opinions previously stated does not necessarily reflect those of binrev.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've always wondered. Why don't many places have entry criteria? Just a small quiz. Sure people could keep on guessing till they got it right, but it'd turn away the least determined people who post once and then never come back to even check if they got flamed or not.

I realise, I myself have only a few posts (I think it may actually be only one post) but I've been lurking for a long time. And I will never post alot, sorry. But implementing some kind of quiz would mean even if they didn't know the answers and were total idiots that they could use google to find the answer, they'd only get here if they did some research in the first place.

Seems like a plan to me, but it's by no means my forum.

:voteyes: or :voteno: ?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i'm ok with having certain parts of the forums be open and public to all. i feel a lot of people get useful information and entertainment from our public forums. as for other people who are "looking for more", we should really have something else that is more exclusive. the problem with that is, it takes effort and communication amongst the right kind of people. like i said before, you know where to find me.

-v

I've always wondered. Why don't many places have entry criteria? Just a small quiz. Sure people could keep on guessing till they got it right, but it'd turn away the least determined people who post once and then never come back to even check if they got flamed or not.

I realise, I myself have only a few posts (I think it may actually be only one post) but I've been lurking for a long time. And I will never post alot, sorry. But implementing some kind of quiz would mean even if they didn't know the answers and were total idiots that they could use google to find the answer, they'd only get here if they did some research in the first place.

Seems like a plan to me, but it's by no means my forum.

:voteyes: or :voteno: ?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

remember back in the day the solid black cable box and a dial channel changer? when i was lil my dad musta social engineered the cable guy with a 50$ handshake we had free HBO etc <werent manny channels in them days> but me and my brothers would watch pr0n at night on HBO heh, good times, the cable was coupled from the living room <clickernob> to the basement, heh we'd form a line of sight going downstairs to upstairs using handsignals cause thatr clicker was loud and if our parent woke they'd be pissed GO2SLEEP!, <click> is there pr0n on downstairs yet? no? <click> heh

Edited by DaL3e7
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hey, just a thought.

i came to binrev first time following an invision exploit that was posted in noobie hq.

i read about it and realized i really didnt want to use it now i'd found it, but rather thought id see what it did instead of blindly jumping into some sea of shit, or not.

once i decided to sign up, i read the main stuff on the rules n stuff instead of just jumping ahead. i read there that this is indeed, a sort of noob safehouse or whatnot. but then that idea popped up again one day someone in irc bitched about all us noobs not contributing to the community.

i wonder how the hell can oen contribute to a community thats shutting out newcomers? Fine, i came in here wanting a start to end solution to something, thats what people do in life, want answers before they realize they can come up with their own given some time and less excitement and soberb.

you get my point, i honestly wish i had more to contribute than this blah philosophy to the issue. i also wish i had stuff to post in forums, my postcount is based on some windows knowledge i might haev and a question or two as i learn linux (decided to started learning linux after finding answers to questions in binrev instead of flames)

either way, just my view of the matter at hand.

and my question to you is then, how do you plan on refreshign ideas, if you dont give new minds a chance to realize they can too write their own invision exploit, or even more, learn how invision works and still not wreck it up?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i'm not saying we shut out noobs. i understand that many people are just starting out and that's cool, but for those of us who are not noobs, there should be something else. something where people can collaborate to work together on more advanced topics. if those people do not know that others like them are around binrev, then they will think that none exist. i just want to give a shoutout to everyone out there saying, "hey, i'm here and i'm interested in hacking. wont be please join me?"

still waiting for people to msg me ;)

-v

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"there should be something else. something where people can collaborate to work together on more advanced topics."

Well, what exactly did you have in mind...?

I like where you're going with this but, do you think there are enough people to make this into something useful/do-able.

Why not just add a protected channel on irc.binrev.net and have discussion there and then based on how well that does possibly add it to the forums. (not to mention that the bandwidth costs for the forum right now aren't exactly indicative to growth).

Just my 2 bits.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know you didn't want administration input but...

We have a nubieHQ for noobs. If they bother you, stay away from that section. That being said, some also certainly slip into other parts of the forums as well. As someone said earlier, it is a constant in this community. We still have a much higher signal-to-noise ratio than any other hacker forums out there.

As far as an area for advanced users (which we have discussed on multiple occasions), the problem with that is the following:

1) It could easily be copied and pasted out to the public area.

2) It is, by its very existence, elitist.

3) People would possibly stop posting in the public area and helping the noobs or anyone else.

4) People would to things like boosting their post count just to get automated access to a certain exclusive forum.

5) If the process is not automated, it is too time consuming and subjective to choose "who gets in".

Besides, shouldn't information be free for everyone?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like this might be better off if it's separate from BinRev. Not to be exclusive or elitist but, just to have a group of people that want to work on a specific project and are willing to contribute.

I'm not to fancy of having a VIP section of the forums <see reasons above> but that shouldn't limit the people that want to work together on something.

Edited by xGERMx
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't believe anybody would believe me to be this pretentious. Read my second post, I was being facetious. The purpose of the original post was to provoke conversation about the thought process.

Come on, what kind of imbecile mixes Latin and English in the same sentence? I'm not that fucked up.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what i have been talking about is not to propose an invite only section of the forums. i'm not even talking about the forums at all. i just want a section of binrev, whether it be forums or irc, where there is a zero tolerance for people who have no idea what's going on. this will be conducive to people actually get some work done. anyone can go in and post, but if you say "dumb shit" or its obvious that you have no idea what you're talking about, then you are banned/ignored. as an irc op on #binrev, i let many things slide because the main channel is for everyone and anything goes. i have tried to start several sub-channels in hopes of luring more productive and skilled members to no avail.

someone help me. find me on irc.

-v

p.s. soho: regardless of your original intent, you've got the ball rolling now and you're not going to be able to get all the toothpaste back in the tube. :)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While your pseudo-intellectual, meticulously melodramatic written piece of home-brew philosophy certainly appeals to me, your worries do not. There will always be the wise, the curious and the merely power-hungry. There is no point in locking the latter group out, they will always find their way in. Instead, distinguish yourself through thought. True hacking involves breaking the boundaries of an exogenous situation, digital vandalism is simply identifying certain situation which have already been worked around by someone more knowledgable. The hacker manipulates the circumstances, the vandal simply picks them.

The curious will always be taught. The power-hungry will always give up. Albeit not without asking annoying questions.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

while i receive your insults openly, i just think you do not share the same concerns as i do. it could also be that i have miscommunicated my point. i am in no way talking about locking people out of anything, but simply stating that there needs to be a forum (not specifically the www kind) for more advanced users to congregate to facilitate collaboration. the bottom line is that it is just very time consuming to filter out all the noise sometimes.

i guess that's why hacking groups currently work the way they do. it seems that there isnt much interest in what i have proposed, so this is my last post on the subject. thanks for listening and see you around, space cowboy...

-v

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
while i receive your insults openly, i just think you do not share the same concerns as i do. it could also be that i have miscommunicated my point. i am in no way talking about locking people out of anything, but simply stating that there needs to be a forum (not specifically the www kind) for more advanced users to congregate to facilitate collaboration. the bottom line is that it is just very time consuming to filter out all the noise sometimes.

i guess that's why hacking groups currently work the way they do. it seems that there isnt much interest in what i have proposed, so this is my last post on the subject. thanks for listening and see you around, space cowboy...

-v

Whoops, I didn't mean you, my lovely sweetytummy verbal. :blush::heart:

I was um. Being facetous and a teeny weeny bit sarcastic at the OP. Should have made it more clear through. :huh:

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually agree with Verbal.

You can't just grab a 5 year old kid and put him on a college expecting him to catch up with the students there. Nor should you force a grad student to attend the kindergarden. There is a place and a need for both.

I think the same aplies on this topic. If all the more knowledge people do is teach the basics to less knowledge people they will have no time to collaborate in the creation of greater things. That is not saying that they should stop teaching the less knowledge ones, just that there should be a time and a place for both!

Edited by B0rg
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now