Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Panda

Programming

23 posts in this topic

So;
I've been reading the book Hackers [Steve Levy] and with the inspiring people there, I've finally decided to start learning to program.
The problem I've yet to find out is, what is the best type of programming for me.
Firstly I'm looking at editing programs [e.g:programs that contain 'malware' or other useless junk] Maybe remove that and use it for my personal use.
Things like that, such as Cracking programs activation, would that come under programming as such?
I know this may be such a broad topic here but can ya'll give a few examples of which language/programming does what?

-Panda

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Your going too far in too fast. Get your feet wet before you jump in the rabbit hole man.
Get started with some java.
[code]Public class HelloWorld
{
Public static void main (String[] args)
{
System.out.println ("Hello World!\n");
}
}
[/code] Edited by BigBrother

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gogo c++

int main(){
cout << "Hello World\n";
system("pause");
} Edited by BoBo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='BoBo' post='227813' date='Jan 8 2007, 07:49 PM']
gogo c++

int main(){
cout << "Hello World\n";
system("pause");
}
[/quote]
System("pause")? You sure that's the best choice here?

[code]#include <iostream>

using namespace std;

int main()
{
cout<<"Hello World\n";
cin.get();
}[/code]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah... start slow.. download some example source programs for whatever language you're interested in today and muck with the thing... change stuff. Ask what would happen if you changed this thing to that thing... mess with numbers... most stuff will crash or cause weird stuff.. but then you will _know_ ... You can't really mess anything up... you can always reinstall your os if it totally bombs on ya... but that's a worst case situation... probably won't get that far for a while.. but when it happens... be happy... you've arrived java script:emoticon(':blush:', 'smid_13')
:blush:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='jht129' post='227835' date='Jan 8 2007, 10:41 PM']
C++ is the way to go
[/quote]
Yes it is the way to go and it is better than java. However you are missing two points.
1) Dont limit your self. EVER
2) C++ is more complex than java for a newb to programming. Start with Java it's simple and when you get used to the way it's structured C++ is very close.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='BigBrother' post='227837' date='Jan 8 2007, 09:44 PM']
[quote name='jht129' post='227835' date='Jan 8 2007, 10:41 PM']
C++ is the way to go
[/quote]
Yes it is the way to go and it is better than java. However you are missing two points.
1) Dont limit your self. EVER
2) C++ is more complex than java for a newb to programming. Start with Java it's simple and when you get used to the way it's structured C++ is very close.
[/quote]

I'd say it really depends on the environment you're using. If you're planning on doing this in a windows environment, C++/Java might be the way to go. If you're looking at tackling programming in a *nix environment, then straight C is definitely your best bet. Especially since you mentioned modifying source. A good 90% of the time the source I deal with is in pure C. Either way, figure out what you're looking to do, and just use the best tool for the job. Usually many different goals require many different languages. My point is, you should worry less about which language you're going to write in, and spend more time figuring out what exactly it is you want to do. From there choosing the right tool for the job is easy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
C. I started with C++, and then moved to C.
If you wanna go with C++, you can try my own tutorial: [url="http://www.planetcpp.info"]www.planetcpp.info[/url]

Otherwise, get the latest version of the K&R and start learning C.

[code]
#include <stdio.h>

int main()
{
printf("Hello World!\n");
return 0;
}
[/code]

I'd say you don't need what C++ has to offer most of the time. I prefer C++ for large applications like games, or some GUI apps. Otherwise, C will meet your needs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i'ld say Python would be a good start for a complete beginner. It runs on Win and 'nix boxes and has an easy to understand Basic type structure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Lurk Moar!!!!' post='228516' date='Jan 11 2007, 06:37 PM']
i'ld say Python would be a good start for a complete beginner. It runs on Win and 'nix boxes and has an easy to understand Basic type structure.
[/quote]

C works on Win and *nix boxes too...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For a classical education in programming:

Start with Lisp (common lisp is a good start).
I know it may sound like either a stupid or harsh thing to say but it will really teach you a lot of things you need to learn to get yourself into the correct frame of mind. You will also learn about recursion and hopefully grow bored with it so that in later years you only use it when its required.

Then go to Perl.
Your experience with lisp will allow you to appreciate Perl more, and Perls sometimes C like syntax will prep you for the next step while giving you a rich experience with regular expressions.

Then go to C (Use gcc and use the pedantic flag for all code).
You already know a lot of C syntax from Perl and you will find a lot of the conditional syntax to be the same. Now you just have to live without reg-ex and do things the hard way; Don't forget to learn the golden rule of memory management.. Leave it emptier then you found it. While your doing so, you will learn about architecture specific problems (sizeof(int) alone will be educational) and expand your mind to the null void and function pointer

Then go to C++ (Same as C++, using g++)
After C and Perl C++ will feel easy, and allow you to make reusable objects you can reuse as needed.

If your looking for something more 'liberal arts' or 'general studies' go with php. Edited by feverdream

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Panda' post='227803' date='Jan 8 2007, 07:17 PM']
So;
I've been reading the book Hackers [Steve Levy] and with the inspiring people there, I've finally decided to start learning to program.
The problem I've yet to find out is, what is the best type of programming for me.
Firstly I'm looking at editing programs [e.g:programs that contain 'malware' or other useless junk] Maybe remove that and use it for my personal use.
Things like that, such as Cracking programs activation, would that come under programming as such?
I know this may be such a broad topic here but can ya'll give a few examples of which language/programming does what?

-Panda
[/quote]

In hacking, I've always seen Perl and C to be the most useful -- Perl for quick hacks and C for honest-to-god tools that are to be perfected. That, at least, is the old wisdom from the Linux world. Nowadays, I'm seeing Ruby picking up some steam to augment/replace Perl, but C has always been around, and will be for the foreseeable future.

Java, also, has very compelling perks -- when you crash a C program, you get the helpful message "Segmentation fault". However, in Java, the JVM gives you a stack trace all the way to the line of code where the error occurred -- very helpful. Java was made to look like C and C++, so it is basically equivalent in syntax. I moved from C++ to Java, but a move the other way would be fairly easy too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
People often say Perl is good for a quick bit of coding.

What if you wanted to cast thousands of votes on a web page which has a voting question running like 'which do you prefer? A, B or C' Could you do this with a 'quick Perl script'?

What about if you wanted to keep on reloading a page to increase page views, is this easily done with a quick Perl script?

If you guys could give some examples of what can fairly easily be done with a 'quick Perl script' I would be very interested.

Is Perl best for these type things would you say?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well for the voting I would use PHP :P
I only know a little perl but from what I know it's like an executable psudocode.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='BigBrother' post='228563' date='Jan 11 2007, 10:20 PM']
Well for the voting I would use PHP :P
I only know a little perl but from what I know it's like an executable psudocode.
[/quote]
Don't you need to chmod the script first?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Panda' post='227803' date='Jan 9 2007, 01:17 AM']
So;
I've been reading the book Hackers [Steve Levy] and with the inspiring people there, I've finally decided to start learning to program.
The problem I've yet to find out is, what is the best type of programming for me.
Firstly I'm looking at editing programs [e.g:programs that contain 'malware' or other useless junk] Maybe remove that and use it for my personal use.
Things like that, such as Cracking programs activation, would that come under programming as such?
I know this may be such a broad topic here but can ya'll give a few examples of which language/programming does what?

-Panda
[/quote]

well hello panda, this all depends on what you really want to do further 'down the road', i started with python and still using it, but currently i'm reading on asm to help with reverse engineering 'Cracking programs activation' if that's what you want to do i suggest you find a book on asm and take a trip to this forum to get started...[url="http://forums.accessroot.com/"]http://forums.accessroot.com/[/url] reverse engineering isn't for the faint of heart

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you wanna do reverse engineering, then you need to learn assembly first. Pick up a book like "assembly language step-by-step". But yeah, as codar said, assembly language is not for the faint of heart. Unless you are very motivated and have very strong convictions, a book on assembly as your first language is likely to discourage you. I suggest you start with a language that is very commonly used such as C. I started with C++, and then moved to C. In case you don't know the difference, C++ is C with classes. By that I mean that it has added features for object oriented programming, which you won't need in order to make small programs. Even large programs can be written without object oriented programming. I mean, in order not to discourage you with a huge C++ book, you probably should get a small C book, they are far less discouraging that a big C++ book for your first programming language. Once you'll know C it'll be easy to pick up a book on C++ and learn it, if you want. Anyway, a very good book on C that shouldn't kill you is "the C programming language", which is commonly known as the K&R.

[url="http://www.amazon.com/C-Programming-Language-2nd/dp/0131103628"]http://www.amazon.com/C-Programming-Langua...d/dp/0131103628[/url]

Some people might suggest you some scripting languages or some modern languages, but I think you really should start with C. It is a much more "cleaner" language and will give you less tools integrated into the language.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I started with rm logicator at an early age which introduced logic gates such as and not or that kind of thing but is not used at all anymore. From there i moved on to learn pascal which is ment to be the heart of all languages. With pascal been so plain i wanted more i wanted to desing the looks of an app and then add the programming to make it do what i need it too so i went on too visual basic and feel that is really simple but i do agree that c++ is prob the best way to go if you dont want to just sit and read one book then anotherr and another just to learn how to program. Look out for the wileys books and sams books they do a wide ranch of teach your self in 24 hours although with that said it does depend on how quick you can read lol.

Any programming language can be dis heartening ig you dont keep to it and put up with your mistakes because everyone makes mistakes and thats how we all learn lets look at micorsoft they have plenty of them in there os when they release the os's

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wellll,
Python = [codebox]print "Hello world"[/codebox] Can't get much easier. Edited by xantr3x

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='xantr3x' post='233007' date='Feb 3 2007, 01:01 PM']Wellll,
Python = [codebox]print "Hello world"[/codebox] Can't get much easier.[/quote]
HTML, BBCODE(is that a real language?), and such are a bit easier then that. But they aren't real languages.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
C or C++ are really the best options for a beginner.

Java requires you to immediately start off making a Class. Beginner programmers do not actually know what a Class is, or what it is actually used for. Actually, Java has a lot of stuff that's implemented very quickly that beginner programmers will not understand. Beginners will not really understand what System.out.println() means. In C and C++, creating classes is not necessary until you actually need them. But at the same time, C and C++ will introduce more professional program structure than Python and Perl might. Python and Perl are both minimalistic script programming languages. They are fantastic once you already know how to program, and already know what the interpreters for those languages are doing for you. When you start though, I think it's important to get a more in-depth feel of C language syntax. A start in C and C++ is more likely to infuse good programming habits than a start on Perl and Python. Java will simply confuse new programmers by utilizing things in ordinary code that beginner programmers do not understand. In my rather humble opinion, I think it is important that new programmers not be thrown code for which the basis is difficult to understand.

subversus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0