BINREV SPYD3R

The future of BinRev?

28 posts in this topic

Well, this last round of rolling outages and server problems were pretty much the problem that I was most worried about. It appears that BinRev has outgrown its server. Counting all of the sites on the box, we get over 15,000 unique visits per day. That equates to more hits than I care to measure and since we are mostly a forum based site, you can imagine the number of queries being constantly thrown at our database.

This required me to update the server and this update (another GB of memory) is just the tip of the iceberg and a short-term solution. We are still growing at a phenomenal rate (which is a good thing, don’t get me wrong) and based on our growth patterns, we will eat that extra GB of memory up within 6 months, probably less. Because of this, we need a box that has bigger and badder specs than we already have. Our current box is pretty bad-ass with a P4 3.2Ghx Hyper-threaded CPU and 2 GB memory. We also have need for more hard drive space for projects like HackTV and BRR and this also means that we need insane amounts of bandwidth as well. We regularly use 500-900 GB of bandwidth per month, and that is thanks to other people providing us with mirrors.

This doesn’t even account for the fact that we had upwards of 6 people working on the server at some point in time. I personally was up almost every single night in the month of December until 2-3 AM EST after work and on weekends trying to get this PoS machine under control. I just don’t have time for this. The value of the time that myself and everyone else put into this was simply not worth the headaches. I can get the job done (with a lot of help from everyone else on the team) but there are people who can get it done a lot faster and more reliably than I could. We need someone to manage our dedicated server full-time now since I cannot do it anymore.

It is for these reasons that we are going to be moving hosts sometime soon, possibly even by the end of January.

I have been shopping around for a new host that will hopefully meet our needs for the next few years. You can imagine the power that we will need based on the specs on our current server as explained above. A Celeron just won’t get the job done, so we have to spring for something on the very high end and some hosting companies cannot even accommodate our needs! We have narrowed it down to a few candidates, but they are very, very expensive.

Now, I have paid out of my own pocket for all of this for years now. Our current box now costs us about 175 per month and that does not include our licensing costs for invision forums and gallery. The upgrades that we need would cost us 500 dollars from our current host. Obviously, that means that we have to move since I cannot afford that out-of-pocket expense anymore. We have shopped around and we have some possibilities that we are exploring at this time.

I know that none of you wants ads over the forum. I don’t either. Hell, I have said since day 1 that I would never put banner ads on the site! That was a pretty strong statement to make, and maybe now I have to eat those words. I am not resigned to this fate yet, but we have to do something to pay for this server or BinRev is going to be history within 6 months.

So we have been talking about this in the DDP members group and with the moderating team, for quite some time now. We all agree that this is something that none of us want to do. No one likes SPAM, including us. We have had some brainstorming sessions to come up with alternatives, but none of them will generate the revenue that we need to pay for the server. To be honest, we don’t know if even forum ads will pay for the server! We may still die even if we do put up ads, so I am really up against a wall here.

We are trying to work out some deals for hosting with companies in return for endorsements.

We are trying to negotiate some deals to put limited advertising on our sites/projects to minimize the impact and intrusiveness of them.

We discussed donations, but I don’t want to turn into a OTH beg-a-thon every week either. While I appreciate the offers that we sometimes get for donations, the fact of the matter is that this will be an ongoing, monthly cost and most people tend to donate ONCE and that simply won’t help much for a recurring cost.

We have discussed having a “pay area” of the site, but I have a moral issue with this. We have never required people to register for our forums or any other content, and I don’t want to start being exclusive now. I believe in making this information free because the Binary Revolution is, and has always been, about sharing and teaching each other openly.

We tried banner ads on some of the other smaller sites (like Hacktv.org and digitaldawgpound.org) but they do not generate enough money (about 5 dollars a month, total from both sites) to even make a dent.

So now you know what my month of December has been like. Stressed out of getting the server working, but even more stressed out at the future of the revolution. You now know everything that is going on. That is it. Now the question is, where do we go from here?

What would you do?

http://www.digitaldawgpound.org/stankdawg/post=184
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About the money issue:

-Anyone intrested in a Binary Revolution store? :)

-I have seen forums do a pay, and you get better features thing. Where you pay a certain amount of money, and you get extra features, so that is a possibility. The information is still free, doesn't seem like a moral issue.

-Ads make a site look horrible. It just doesn't work. Maybe you could add another page, and say that is your website, and just put a shitload of ads on there. Like 50.

The store is deffintatly my favorite option.

About the time issue:

-You could get people from the forum with the abilitys to help out. There really isn't another option.

-Or you could invent a super fast car. :)

About the space issue:

-There are more then 2250 members that have zero posts. I wouldn't want to do this, but you could do something about those.

Is there someway you could get everything for less? Social Engienering?

Someone pin this topic and move it to a diffrent forum. One with more visits. Like Genral Chat.

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Let's make a store like 2600...

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I see a problem with a store is the costs. They have to make the merchandise and then hope they can sell it.

It sounds like it is just one server that is hosting all this goodness that is making things slow. How about doing some kind of load balancing? For example, host the fourms on one server, the radio stuff on another, etc. They wouldn't have to be top of the line machines and you should be able to find multiple boxes to handle this for way under 500 bucks a month. I don't know what you guys have now, so maybe that is just a moot point.

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same here :D

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Commit credit card fraud and don't get caught. Works everytime.

That or ads.

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We discussed donations, but I don’t want to turn into a OTH beg-a-thon every week either. While I appreciate the offers that we sometimes get for donations, the fact of the matter is that this will be an ongoing, monthly cost and most people tend to donate ONCE and that simply won’t help much for a recurring cost.

I've been a member here for almost 3 years now. But I browsed the forums and checked everything out, back around November or December of 03. I found out about the DDP and Binrev by listening to Radio Phreak America, I enjoyed listening to it, and from time to time still listen to it. I've said it in the past, that I've learned so much just from listening to Binrev Radio. StankDawg has ben bending over backwards to make the term "hacker" something different than what the media says it means. Binrev Radio to me has been the most informative Radio show I have ever listened to. I personally applaud Stank for this. No I’m not ass kissing or anything. I'm just grateful that all this knowledge is literally at our fingertips. Bells Mind. ntheory. Sometimes referred to as the busiest man in hacking. His contributions on Binrev Radio alone have been enormous, not to mention Default Radio. Why not go ahead and visit Bells Mind and check it out for yourself.

Then there's Oldskoolphreak.com, as I stated before, this site made me aware that there were others out there that enjoyed learning how things worked, taking them apart and making them work better. Of course I'm talking about Radio Phreak America. Thank you Dual for all your work. And Natas you are doing a great job keeping Oldskoolphreak.com going. Thank you.

YAPL, an awesome payphone list directory, where you can submit pictures of payphones you have come in contact with. A pretty cool database. Thanks Black Ratchet. Rootsecure.net. Mr. Nick84's Security website. Again a wealth of information. Ok you're probably wondering why I’m ranting. I could go on about all the other member sites. Phreakphactor, DDP Hack Radio. And don’t even get me started on DDP Hack Radio. The site where you can listen to radio about hacking all of the time. Geek Love Radio, Doc Droppers, Hacker Events. Hacker Media. I found out about almost all of them thanks to Binrev.

As Stank has said. the price of the hosting to accommodate all the new users and hits will be too much for him to pay for. Stank I know you don’t want to rely on donations. But how else are we going to keep this place going? With all the members that frequent these forums, I don’t see why we can’t help out with the cost of the hosting, or pay for it entirely. I know I could afford 5 bucks a month on a long term basis. I'd even give more than 5 bucks. I don’t see why one hundred other people couldn’t afford that either. Just think about it. For the price eating lunch at a fast food restaurant once a month we could keep this server going. Heck and that’s only if one hundred members pitched in. We have so many members, but when money is mentioned people say they have none. I know that just isn’t true. I see posts about the new gear that people bought for themselves. Sure I know there are allot of people out there that can’t afford it. But I also imagine that there are allot of people out there that can too. Again I'll say it. 5 bucks a month, c’mon now. What’s 5 bucks a month?

I am not someone on TV asking for your money, heck I can’t stand to hear people beg for money. I guess I am just afraid of seeing this all come to an end when I have personally benefited so much from it. And I know there are so many others that benefited as well. Never have I seen such a place as this where someone new to the "scene" could ask questions without being flamed. Sure there are other places out there to get information but you can be met with an elitist attitude. I didn’t mean to get on a soap box or get emotional but binrev means so much to me, and I'd hate to see it all go away! I personally will do everything I can to make sure it does not disappear!!

edited for grammar

Edited by Cessna
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Yeah make a separate page with ads, I will click the hell out of them.

Set up a donation thing, I will donate.

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Donations - I will donate

Ads - I will Click

Inheritance - I will Assassinate

One thing i would suggest is make DocDroppers plain HTML and text files rather than a DB intensive WiKi...

We the members of BinRev will follow where you go, and as you have said on shows previous, we will never "die" even if we have to resort to methods we would rather not. I would rather see us on InvisionFree than die!

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Well, DocDroppers might be able to be run off DokuWiki since it's all flat files and it's very fast. I just don't know how much of a PITA it'd be to convert all the entries from MediaWiki to DokuWiki.

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Yeah make a separate page with ads, I will click the hell out of them.

Set up a donation thing, I will donate.

Why not just write a script that does it 5,000 times a day?

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Yeah make a separate page with ads, I will click the hell out of them.

Set up a donation thing, I will donate.

Why not just write a script that does it 5,000 times a day?

Because that is fraud.

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But a perl script to automatically click once at some random point each day is slightly less suspicious :P (even if 90% of the active community does it >:) )

Edited by n3xg3n
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So, how much per month will it take to keep things going?

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As far as the store idea you could see about contacting websites that already sell stuff related to BinRev to have them make and sell items with the BR logo. It might attract more people too. You could always contact ThinkGeek, Jinx, or ZeStuff.com...

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I kind of owned myself with this thread. I closed the original thread because initially, I just wanted people to think about it themselves. Then my post on the blawg about it came back here via RSS feed and BOOM! HEADSHOT! Self-Ownage!

I hate coming across like a begger. :blush:

Please take conversation of this over to the projects area which has an open thread on this as well.

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I would gladly fill an envelope with assorted bills and possibly some gold bullion and mail it to you. Or click a donate link...

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Yeah make a separate page with ads, I will click the hell out of them.

Set up a donation thing, I will donate.

Why not just write a script that does it 5,000 times a day?

This just doesnt work. Google has a very very advanced fraud detector, *several* of my friends have had their accounts suspended for even clicking their own ads every few hours.

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<p>Well, this last round of rolling outages and server problems were pretty much the problem that I was most worried about. It appears that BinRev has outgrown its server. Counting all of the sites on the box, we get over 15,000 unique visits per day. That equates to more hits than I care to measure and since we are mostly a forum based site, you can imagine the number of queries being constantly thrown at our database.</p>

<p>This required me to update the server and this update (another GB of memory) is just the tip of the iceberg and a short-term solution. We are still growing at a phenomenal rate (which is a good thing, don’t get me wrong) and based on our growth patterns, we will eat that extra GB of memory up within 6 months, probably less. Because of this, we need a box that has bigger and badder specs than we already have. Our current box is pretty bad-ass with a P4 3.2Ghx Hyper-threaded CPU and 2 GB memory. We also have need for more hard drive space for projects like HackTV and BRR and this also means that we need insane amounts of bandwidth as well. We regularly use 500-900 GB of bandwidth per month, and that is thanks to other people providing us with mirrors.</p>

<p>This doesn’t even account for the fact that we had upwards of 6 people working on the server at some point in time. I personally was up almost every single night in the month of December until 2-3 AM EST after work and on weekends trying to get this PoS machine under control. I just don’t have time for this. The value of the time that myself and everyone else put into this was simply not worth the headaches. I can get the job done (with a lot of help from everyone else on the team) but there are people who can get it done a lot faster and more reliably than I could. We need someone to manage our dedicated server full-time now since I cannot do it anymore.</p>

<p>It is for these reasons that we are going to be moving hosts sometime soon, possibly even by the end of January.</p>

<p>I have been shopping around for a new host that will hopefully meet our needs for the next few years. You can imagine the power that we will need based on the specs on our current server as explained above. A Celeron just won’t get the job done, so we have to spring for something on the very high end and some hosting companies cannot even accommodate our needs! We have narrowed it down to a few candidates, but they are very, very expensive.</p>

<p>Now, I have paid out of my own pocket for all of this for years now. Our current box now costs us about 175 per month and that does not include our licensing costs for invision forums and gallery. The upgrades that we need would cost us 500 dollars from our current host. Obviously, that means that we have to move since I cannot afford that out-of-pocket expense anymore. We have shopped around and we have some possibilities that we are exploring at this time.</p>

<p>I know that none of you wants ads over the forum. I don’t either. Hell, I have said since day 1 that I would never put banner ads on the site! That was a pretty strong statement to make, and maybe now I have to eat those words. I am not resigned to this fate yet, but we have to do something to pay for this server or BinRev is going to be history within 6 months.</p>

<p>So we have been talking about this in the DDP members group and with the moderating team, for quite some time now. We all agree that this is something that none of us want to do. No one likes SPAM, including us. We have had some brainstorming sessions to come up with alternatives, but none of them will generate the revenue that we need to pay for the server. To be honest, we don’t know if even forum ads will pay for the server! We may still die even if we do put up ads, so I am really up against a wall here.</p>

<p>We are trying to work out some deals for hosting with companies in return for endorsements.</p>

<p>We are trying to negotiate some deals to put limited advertising on our sites/projects to minimize the impact and intrusiveness of them.</p>

<p>We discussed donations, but I don’t want to turn into a OTH beg-a-thon every week either. While I appreciate the offers that we sometimes get for donations, the fact of the matter is that this will be an ongoing, monthly cost and most people tend to donate ONCE and that simply won’t help much for a recurring cost.</p>

<p>We have discussed having a “pay area” of the site, but I have a moral issue with this. We have never required people to register for our forums or any other content, and I don’t want to start being exclusive now. I believe in making this information free because the Binary Revolution is, and has always been, about sharing and teaching each other openly.</p>

<p>We tried banner ads on some of the other smaller sites (like Hacktv.org and digitaldawgpound.org) but they do not generate enough money (about 5 dollars a month, total from both sites) to even make a dent.</p>

<p>So now you know what my month of December has been like. Stressed out of getting the server working, but even more stressed out at the future of the revolution. You now know everything that is going on. That is it. Now the question is, where do we go from here?</p>

<p>What would you do?

</p>

http://www.digitaldawgpound.org/stankdawg/post=184

Dang your baby has grown all up n stuff. The only bit of advice that I see going across major bandwidth venues is that they offer a subscription based on ad's. You have banner ads by default and those who chip in or pay to remove them can get access to not having them. This however is not too hard to bypass considering the type of visitors you get. Personally over time your only going to get worse and it really comes down to not what you can take away but what you can add. Keep information always free but to get that extra little bling maybe offer something to the next level. We know the radio show takes a lot of your time and probably a fairly good chunk of your resources. Why not consider moving that as part of a premium membership? Yes it will cut some of your listeners but in the end most of the loyal people of binrev will continue to step up the premium and most of us understand or will understand that the only point of the premium content is not to take away the information but to support the binrev itself. People can still read the forums and contribute like crazy! People can still check out the mag! But maybe consider moving those venues which take a lot of resources to a new support resource. Its kinds sketchy but it could cut those out who simply cycle your site. Another idea is to possibly remove the option of forum images from the site. Keep only the theme and avatar images and remove all other options for images such as sigs and whatnot. Personally I find it very easy to pay say $50 a year for premium content and help support a site that has grown so well thanks to the community.

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Dang your baby has grown all up n stuff. The only bit of advice that I see going across major bandwidth venues is that they offer a subscription based on ad's. You have banner ads by default and those who chip in or pay to remove them can get access to not having them. This however is not too hard to bypass considering the type of visitors you get. Personally over time your only going to get worse and it really comes down to not what you can take away but what you can add. Keep information always free but to get that extra little bling maybe offer something to the next level. We know the radio show takes a lot of your time and probably a fairly good chunk of your resources. Why not consider moving that as part of a premium membership? Yes it will cut some of your listeners but in the end most of the loyal people of binrev will continue to step up the premium and most of us understand or will understand that the only point of the premium content is not to take away the information but to support the binrev itself. People can still read the forums and contribute like crazy! People can still check out the mag! But maybe consider moving those venues which take a lot of resources to a new support resource. Its kinds sketchy but it could cut those out who simply cycle your site. Another idea is to possibly remove the option of forum images from the site. Keep only the theme and avatar images and remove all other options for images such as sigs and whatnot. Personally I find it very easy to pay say $50 a year for premium content and help support a site that has grown so well thanks to the community.

I have done some thinking on ads, and from previous sites I had up I have come to hate them... Stank gave me a few directions to look before, and his theory on how they are evil, and I had come to try and adjust to differant ideas. To keep this site moving ahead, I would not care if it came down to a few site ads that were relevant. This Forum is full of so much info, and I would hate to see it lost. My sites before were all about personal gain on the site, this is differant .. This is a Community Loss if it is lost.

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<p>Well, this last round of rolling outages and server problems were pretty much the problem that I was most worried about. It appears that BinRev has outgrown its server. Counting all of the sites on the box, we get over 15,000 unique visits per day. That equates to more hits than I care to measure and since we are mostly a forum based site, you can imagine the number of queries being constantly thrown at our database.</p>

<p>This required me to update the server and this update (another GB of memory) is just the tip of the iceberg and a short-term solution. We are still growing at a phenomenal rate (which is a good thing, don’t get me wrong) and based on our growth patterns, we will eat that extra GB of memory up within 6 months, probably less. Because of this, we need a box that has bigger and badder specs than we already have. Our current box is pretty bad-ass with a P4 3.2Ghx Hyper-threaded CPU and 2 GB memory. We also have need for more hard drive space for projects like HackTV and BRR and this also means that we need insane amounts of bandwidth as well. We regularly use 500-900 GB of bandwidth per month, and that is thanks to other people providing us with mirrors.</p>

<p>This doesn’t even account for the fact that we had upwards of 6 people working on the server at some point in time. I personally was up almost every single night in the month of December until 2-3 AM EST after work and on weekends trying to get this PoS machine under control. I just don’t have time for this. The value of the time that myself and everyone else put into this was simply not worth the headaches. I can get the job done (with a lot of help from everyone else on the team) but there are people who can get it done a lot faster and more reliably than I could. We need someone to manage our dedicated server full-time now since I cannot do it anymore.</p>

<p>It is for these reasons that we are going to be moving hosts sometime soon, possibly even by the end of January.</p>

<p>I have been shopping around for a new host that will hopefully meet our needs for the next few years. You can imagine the power that we will need based on the specs on our current server as explained above. A Celeron just won’t get the job done, so we have to spring for something on the very high end and some hosting companies cannot even accommodate our needs! We have narrowed it down to a few candidates, but they are very, very expensive.</p>

<p>Now, I have paid out of my own pocket for all of this for years now. Our current box now costs us about 175 per month and that does not include our licensing costs for invision forums and gallery. The upgrades that we need would cost us 500 dollars from our current host. Obviously, that means that we have to move since I cannot afford that out-of-pocket expense anymore. We have shopped around and we have some possibilities that we are exploring at this time.</p>

<p>I know that none of you wants ads over the forum. I don’t either. Hell, I have said since day 1 that I would never put banner ads on the site! That was a pretty strong statement to make, and maybe now I have to eat those words. I am not resigned to this fate yet, but we have to do something to pay for this server or BinRev is going to be history within 6 months.</p>

<p>So we have been talking about this in the DDP members group and with the moderating team, for quite some time now. We all agree that this is something that none of us want to do. No one likes SPAM, including us. We have had some brainstorming sessions to come up with alternatives, but none of them will generate the revenue that we need to pay for the server. To be honest, we don’t know if even forum ads will pay for the server! We may still die even if we do put up ads, so I am really up against a wall here.</p>

<p>We are trying to work out some deals for hosting with companies in return for endorsements.</p>

<p>We are trying to negotiate some deals to put limited advertising on our sites/projects to minimize the impact and intrusiveness of them.</p>

<p>We discussed donations, but I don’t want to turn into a OTH beg-a-thon every week either. While I appreciate the offers that we sometimes get for donations, the fact of the matter is that this will be an ongoing, monthly cost and most people tend to donate ONCE and that simply won’t help much for a recurring cost.</p>

<p>We have discussed having a “pay area” of the site, but I have a moral issue with this. We have never required people to register for our forums or any other content, and I don’t want to start being exclusive now. I believe in making this information free because the Binary Revolution is, and has always been, about sharing and teaching each other openly.</p>

<p>We tried banner ads on some of the other smaller sites (like Hacktv.org and digitaldawgpound.org) but they do not generate enough money (about 5 dollars a month, total from both sites) to even make a dent.</p>

<p>So now you know what my month of December has been like. Stressed out of getting the server working, but even more stressed out at the future of the revolution. You now know everything that is going on. That is it. Now the question is, where do we go from here?</p>

<p>What would you do?

</p>

http://www.digitaldawgpound.org/stankdawg/post=184

Dang your baby has grown all up n stuff. The only bit of advice that I see going across major bandwidth venues is that they offer a subscription based on ad's. You have banner ads by default and those who chip in or pay to remove them can get access to not having them. This however is not too hard to bypass considering the type of visitors you get. Personally over time your only going to get worse and it really comes down to not what you can take away but what you can add. Keep information always free but to get that extra little bling maybe offer something to the next level. We know the radio show takes a lot of your time and probably a fairly good chunk of your resources. Why not consider moving that as part of a premium membership? Yes it will cut some of your listeners but in the end most of the loyal people of binrev will continue to step up the premium and most of us understand or will understand that the only point of the premium content is not to take away the information but to support the binrev itself. People can still read the forums and contribute like crazy! People can still check out the mag! But maybe consider moving those venues which take a lot of resources to a new support resource. Its kinds sketchy but it could cut those out who simply cycle your site. Another idea is to possibly remove the option of forum images from the site. Keep only the theme and avatar images and remove all other options for images such as sigs and whatnot. Personally I find it very easy to pay say $50 a year for premium content and help support a site that has grown so well thanks to the community.

Some ideas:

1. Make The three most current BR radio episodes are free all others are premium

2. Why not move a bunch of files over to snapdrive and similar services to to save on bandwith costs

3. Put all the Binrev episodes on iTunes or whatever the fuck its called

4. Ask all members with sites to host a few radio episodes

5. Sell Chiclets on the street until we get enough revenues to form a BinRev drug ring

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Some ideas:

1. Make The three most current BR radio episodes are free all others are premium

2. Why not move a bunch of files over to snapdrive and similar services to to save on bandwith costs

3. Put all the Binrev episodes on iTunes or whatever the fuck its called

4. Ask all members with sites to host a few radio episodes

5. Sell Chiclets on the street until we get enough revenues to form a BinRev drug ring

1. No, knowledge should be free.

2. I don't think Stank would go for that.

3. iTunes doesn't give hosting.

4. Again bandwidth really isn't the issue.

5. This will work, except replace the chicks with Strom.

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