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fafnir665

The Spindaly-doo

41 posts in this topic

Obviously photoshopped. Note the drastic difference in focus between the dial and the plastic body. Also note the jagged edge around the dial.

And, finally:

TD-122.jpg

You lose. NEXT! :)

Strom, did you really have to ruin our fun like that? You should have waited until later to spill the beans. You're a spindaly-doo doo head. :(

A pulse-dialer would be semi-useful to have in certain situations. Not everyone has mastered the art of tapping at the correct speed to emulate pulse dialing. I can recall, many moons ago, accidentally pulsing out "1911" with the hook-switch instead of "1917"... I found out that 1-911 does the same thing as 911. Not fun trying to explian why you were tapping on the phone.

I remember a discussion about that in the past. I used to say that it could happen the same way DTMF wise. Imagine you wanted to call a number in the 914 NPA, and you dial 1-911-NXX-XXXX instead of 1-914-NXX-XXXX.

Yeah man. In Australia they have tons of spindaly-doo's. They're everywhere, seriously.

They sure are! Austrailia is leet! You should all search the interweb and try to buy an Australian spindaly-doo! It's the perfect collector's piece.

A few years ago Royal discovered that you can dial phone numbers through 10-10-2880 by tapping the mic. Fafnir, Royal and myself were messing around with it on the conference the other night and the joke came up about making a rotary tone dialer. There might be a sound which can trigger the same pulsing effect that tapping the mic has. I'm messing around with it still trying to get it to work. If there's not a tone which has this effect then you could get ridiculous and make some kind of probe protrude from the bottom of the tone dialer and slap the mic for you :):D

Let me clear a few things up. First of all, I don't believe you can actually input numbers in 10-10-288-0 with the rotary pulse noises. What happens is when you simulate the noise, the automated prompt stops and a new message comes on and tells you to please try your call again later. I've successfully done this by rapidly tapping the mouthpiece of my phone with my finger.

Secondly, a rotary dialer is not plausible; you cannot dial numbers by making a pulsing noise. What you would need to do is clip onto the pair and then pulse dial. You could always buy one of those old lineman's handsets with the rotary dial for this purpose. The only actual thing a rotary tone dialer would be good for is to fuck with AT&T's automated operator. Personally I found this idea hilarious, and suggested someone like Fafnir post on the forums about it. Can you imagine if it were possible to use?

"Oh no, the DMTF gets filtered from the mouthpiece when I use my DTMF tone dialer. No worries, I'll use my pocket rotary dialer, that ought to work." *pulsing noises* "Thank you for using AT&T!"

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While we're on the topic, maybe you could mod in a 260hz pulser for SF dialing.

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While we're on the topic, maybe you could mod in a 260hz pulser for SF dialing.

:) I was thinking the same thing actually, and you beat to the post. If only it were still plausible...

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is there any sites to buy really cool phones?

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is there any sites to buy really cool phones?

eBay?

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I propose that there could never be a functional pulse dialer. Or if there were, it would have to be very different from a DTMF tone dialer.

While we're on the topic, maybe you could mod in a 260hz pulser for SF dialing.

I was thinking the same thing actually, and you beat to the post. If only it were still plausible...

Secondly, a rotary dialer is not plausible; you cannot dial numbers by making a pulsing noise. What you would need to do is clip onto the pair and then pulse dial. You could always buy one of those old lineman's handsets with the rotary dial for this purpose.

100% plausible. Evan Doorbell even has a tape demonstrating working corporate tielines with a 2600 Hz SF pulse dialler (need to find it). His device was probably a salvaged dial connected between a transistor single-frequency oscillator and a speaker. Such a device is apparently the original "Silver Box" according to an old 2600 article by Billsf.*

This stuff is fairly easy to implement today, using a string of silence-separated 2600 Hz sine pulses generated in Audacity then saved as WAV files, exported to an MP3 player or something like it. Of what value it would be in 2014, other than as a curiosity, is open for debate.

* "True Colors" (Fall 1993), Billsf; "The Best of 2600" (2008), p. 441-445.

Edited by scratchytcarrier
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This stuff is fairly easy to implement today, using a string of silence-separated 2600 Hz sine pulses generated in Audacity then saved as WAV files, exported to an MP3 player or something like it. Of what value it would be in 2014, other than as a curiosity, is open for debate.

 

If you figured out a way to get robbed bit signaling trunks to respond to it, you could probably find some pretty innovative uses for it. Or make an actual spindaly-doo if you're served out of a loop carrier system.

 

That actually raises a question; is there a way to fool a loop carrier system into thinking you're on-hook just by playing 1333 hertz?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbed-bit_signaling

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If you figured out a way to get robbed bit signaling trunks to respond to it, you could probably find some pretty innovative uses for it. Or make an actual spindaly-doo if you're served out of a loop carrier system.
Sure, but actually finding something on the PSTN that responds to rotary SF signalling these days is the real trick. Remember that SS5 signals (including 2600) can be passed over T-carrier, being within the voice band. This was even done quite a bit when there was still lots of analogue carrier equipment in use.
That actually raises a question; is there a way to fool a loop carrier system into thinking you're on-hook just by playing 1333 hertz?
Probably not. That 1333 Hz buzzing isn't inductive coupling like analogue carriers were prone to. As far as I know, it's an artefact introduced to the audio chain by the bit-robbing and doesn't have any technical function in the network. Kind of like that "crunchy" effect you get in 8-bit linear PCM* audio files.So you could sit there blowing 1333 down your line all day and it wouldn't do anything but to piss off people who might be trying to call you.* Saying of which, there's this set (?) of T-lines between PTLDOR13C9T and Seattle that I'm convinced are either still running ancient linear-PCM encoders or newer mu-law units that's always broken on either end, causing them to fall back to linear mode. Sometimes when I toll-call Seattle via Centurycrap/AT&T, I feel like a character in one of the later Evan Doorbell tapes. Yuck. (And now you know where my handle came from.)
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Probably not. That 1333 Hz buzzing isn't inductive coupling like analogue carriers were prone to. As far as I know, it's an artefact introduced to the audio chain by the bit-robbing and doesn't have any technical function in the network.

 

Fair enough. What about uploading a recording to a voicemail system that accepts mu-law, or something along those lines, with a robbed least significant bit in it?

 

newer mu-law units that's always broken on either end, causing them to fall back to linear mode

 

Ew, that's a thing?

 

You live in Portland, though. No way! Small world, I guess. I lived there up until not too long ago. Not to draw off too far into a tangent, but does the Belmont 5ESS still have that incredibly liberal dialplan, or did they change that when they finally rolled out UIFN support to all the local switches?

 

Sometimes when I toll-call Seattle via Centurycrap/AT&T, I feel like a character in one of the later Evan Doorbell tapes.

 

Maybe it's just that office? For one reason or another, there's a certain switch in a suburb of Portland that has really crackly trunks to AT&T. Calls to 0+ on AT&T might be going to a different trunk group or something, seeing as they don't have that problem. I know AT&T normally has kinda fuzzy sounding trunks everywhere, but I always assumed it was intentional, like how they used to inject noise into analog carrier trunks with vacuum tube random number generators.

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There's a line on CNET (www.ckts.info) that accepts 2600 SF dial pulses into a real EM switch. It uses authentic O/N carrier gear.

 

I was able to dial the switch with my new blue box design (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbBJEc1otG9dx6vPYL8LVuQ) in 2600 dial pulse mode with no problem.

 

You need to belong to CNET or dial one of the gateway numbers to access the line: 1-377-0505

 

Robbed bit signalling robbed the least significant bit of the PCM digitized audio on each of the 24 T1 time slots to convey supervision and dial pulsing. However, the T1 equipment could be configured to not use it it and just send the audio tone signalling through, like voice.

 

It WAS possible to send dial pulsing across a T1 line without resorting to tone pulsing. The carrier gear on each end would convert  the robbed bits to/from DC on/off hook and DC dial pulse interruptions. I set up that configuration many times back in the day....

 

df99

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This stuff is fairly easy to implement today, using a string of silence-separated 2600 Hz sine pulses generated in Audacity then saved as WAV files, exported to an MP3 player or something like it. Of what value it would be in 2014, other than as a curiosity, is open for debate.


If you figured out a way to get robbed bit signaling trunks to respond to it, you could probably find some pretty innovative uses for it. Or make an actual spindaly-doo if you're served out of a loop carrier system.

That actually raises a question; is there a way to fool a loop carrier system into thinking you're on-hook just by playing 1333 hertz?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbed-bit_signaling



Mmmmm...the 1333Hz low-level noise is an audio artifact of the way robbed bit signalling works. It is not possible to reverse the process to influence the bits that are causing the noise.

df99

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Mmmmm...the 1333Hz low-level noise is an audio artifact of the way robbed bit signalling works. It is not possible to reverse the process to influence the bits that are causing the noise.

^- This.

Even if you did put such a recording on such a VMS, it probably wouldn't do anything except make the recording sound weird when played back.

You live in Portland, though. No way!

Yeah, big-time "no way". I'm definitely still within its toll/tandem area, though!

Not to draw off too far into a tangent, but does the Belmont 5ESS still have that incredibly liberal dialplan, or did they change that when they finally rolled out UIFN support to all the local switches?

Don't know about Belmont. I try/ied not to spend a lot of time in Portland. When I was stuck living in Gresham ~12 years ago (bad enough as it was) I was on a GTD5 that didn't seem too different of my current ex-Bell 5E in Washington.

Maybe it's just that office? For one reason or another, there's a certain switch in a suburb of Portland that has really crackly trunks to AT&T. Calls to 0+ on AT&T might be going to a different trunk group or something, seeing as they don't have that problem. I know AT&T normally has kinda fuzzy sounding trunks everywhere

Could be just that office, but I have the feeling there's some REALLY old T-carrier gear in use between 503 and whatever's left of 206. I mean, it was late 1994 by the time U.S. West cut our step office to 5E (barely a month before we became the first victims of the 206/360 disaster.) If they are still in fact using vintage '70s linear transceivers it wouldn't surprise me at all.

I only notice the crunchiness when I call direct to Seattle or anywhere else in the northwestern end of the state--for example I can call Spokane or eastern Oregon and it doesn't do that. Usually it's a crap shoot as to whether or not I'll land on that trunk group; other times I can call Seattle and it sounds fine.

Edited by scratchytcarrier
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^- This.

Even if you did put such a recording on such a VMS, it probably wouldn't do anything except make the recording sound weird when played back.

 

Aw... well, on the off chance that it does make a weird sound, it might still be fun to try on a rainy day.

 

Could be just that office, but I have the feeling there's some REALLY old T-carrier gear in use between 503 and whatever's left of 206. I mean, it was late 1994 by the time U.S. West cut our step office to 5E (barely a month before we became the first victims of the 206/360 disaster.) If they are still in fact using vintage '70s linear transceivers it wouldn't surprise me at all.

I only notice the crunchiness when I call direct to Seattle or anywhere else in the northwestern end of the state--for example I can call Spokane or eastern Oregon and it doesn't do that. Usually it's a crap shoot as to whether or not I'll land on that trunk group; other times I can call Seattle and it sounds fine.

 

You might be able to use a process of elimination to figure out where it is. During business hours on weekdays, AT&T's DMS-250 will distribute calls to three or four different 4ESSes instead of just 095T. 800-466-3728 will get you a recording from the DMS-250 from any local tandem that uses it, and 800-245-8411 will get you a recording from whichever 4E it picks to process that particular call.

 

AT&T has a similar arrangement with trunks to Seattle, but via a 5ESS. For some reason, on the trunk groups to these "edge" switches, the terminating 4ESS will pass along audio before supervision, and let the call go on indefinitely. Or damn close to it, anyway. Once I called a number that played hold music on hook, and set the phone down. About three hours later when I came back, it was still going.

 

But there's a particular CLEC, International Telcom, who seems to have some kind of direct trunk to 095T. Probably because they run a long distance service of their own. Anyway though, if you can find a number that doesn't go offhook there (if you're not familiar with them, they're one of the CLECs that thrives on termination fees. Their exchanges are pretty much all IVRs. I got lucky once, and one of their voicemail platforms failed), you can get the classic AT&T long distance treatment that still happens in places like Queens or North Dakota.

 

When I was stuck living in Gresham ~12 years ago (bad enough as it was) I was on a GTD5 that didn't seem too different of my current ex-Bell 5E in Washington.

 

I feel your pain, I commuted there pretty frequently for a while. Sometimes on a MAX at really late hours. Anyway, most of my experience with that switch has been from Millenniums, but it seemed like it would let it's share of weird things happen. Like if you preceed it with a CAC, you can give it weird destinations like 410-040-2300, and it'll actually put them through. It'll let you route UIFNs through AT&T as 01+ too. Not a very big deal, but you can hear them go through the Denver OSPS without having to pause and give it to that IVR.

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Huh. Guess I'll have to plan a "field trip" to Gresham (N.B.: find pickup coil and minidisk recorder with microphone input) when the weather gets better and go at it. They all seemed the same back then, but that was also quite a few years before I started getting into the phreak thing (fairly recent).

I read something in a 2600 about a year ago that talks of strange routings and I think things like your 040 number are even reachable in 5ESS-land through certain long distance carriers (CAC), aren't they?

So, what's the story on Belmont?

Edited by scratchytcarrier
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Awesome! Let me know how your search for a recorder goes. There's really not a lot of recorders out there that have a good signal to noise ratio, are reasonably priced, and ideal (supporting mono, lower sample rates, doesn't have built in mics) for simply phone stuff. The Tascam DR-07 I've used for the last five years or so is great, but only justifiable because I use it for a lot of non-phone things as well.

 

I read something in a 2600 about a year ago that talks of strange routings and I think things like your 040 number are even reachable in 5ESS-land through certain long distance carriers (CAC), aren't they?

 

I've never personally seen a 5E do that, but I'm sure there's some out there that do. If there's any nearby that do it, my money would be on the Beaver Creek switch. Jman and I were served out of non-Bell System DMS-100s for a while, and the CAC trick worked there. One of AT&T's EWSDs in Florida did it without even having to put a CAC in front of the number. Internally, I've heard their techs think of the EWSD as kind of a black sheep that few people know how to run, so there's probably all kinds of crazy things you can get it to do. ex-Bell Atlantic and MCI Local EWSDs aren't so keen on that.

 

If a switch isn't letting the call through, there is a simple way around this. Occasionally, long distance carriers will do this thing where you can dial the CAC + # and get a dialtone from the long distance tandem. Assuming they route ATC calls, you should just be able to dial it normally from there. The harder part is getting it to give you that dialtone, though. What long distance carriers have what is a whole other subject, but Sprint is the one it's been most proven to work on. The drawback to that is you have to subscribe to their service to get it. Excel for some reason will also get you a dialtone from a 0555/Worldcom switch (one of their few CS-2000s. The lack of location ID in the recording and the ringback sound are two ways to tell. Whether or not it'll accept ATCs is another question). Unlike the usual dialtone you get from 101-0555#, this one actually looks for a destination. From my understanding, their casual dialing rates are intended to do something besides scare people off, but I have no idea how (or if) they'll bill a call that effectively has no destination from their perspective. One of their CACs is 0373 if you want to try it.

 

So, what's the story on Belmont?

 

So there's a Millennium out near the Rose Garden that I used to stop at every so often. It's clean, and when there's not an event going on, it's quiet. Since this is a Millennium, it hates "creative dialing", but it would accept CAC+0+anything. So I tried dialing CAC+0-950-1033, 0288-01-800-xxxx-xxxx, and all sorts of other weird things. To my surprise, it actually put these through! Most of the time I was in that neck of the woods I was with non-phone people, so I never got a chance to hunt down anything a little less restrictive.

 

This contrasts pretty starkly to downtown Portland. Or part of it anyway. There's an ACTS phone hidden away at the thirtieth story of the Hilton there (along with a damn fine view) served out of the Capitol DS1 office. For the life of me, I don't think I could get it to put through anything that looked out of the ordinary. Hell, I don't think I could've found anything in the 958/959 prefixes there.

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