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M0NGL3R

Schools, the center for learning?

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If someone could please help me with this simple question: Why are school's so unforgiving when it comes to helping them on their network?

About a week ago I discoverd that our admin had left the finger port open on the server (No, I'm not joking :ATTN: ) so I told him what a risk leaving the finer port open could be. The response: What the hell are you talking about kid? honestly I was baffled, so I went to the principle and asked about the admin and found out that it was a voulinteer job :huh: .

So I decided to talk to admin after schoool and show him why this was such a big risk,

and I did, He thanked me for showing the security hole and said "ill fix it soon", :nono: well shame on me for trying to help, Now I can't use a computer for the rest of the year!!! WTF?!??!! :cuss: :cuss: The justified reason : "you opend a DOS prompt on the schools network, you should've been expeled." :blowfuse:

Well, I suppose if you'r going to have such lax security thats the only way you could try and prevent someone from breaking in... Bottom line: WHY THE F*** AM I IN TROUBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :blowfuse: :cuss:

Someone please help me understand this, please.

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just don't screw with school computers, too many people on these forums have learned the hard way (including me)not to do that. School admins are douchebags that believe they are all knowing because they attended a tech school, they can't stand it when some students are more knowledable when it comes to computers so it's best to stay clear of them.

Heres how you get back at him; stop screwing around on the school's network, do your homework and graduate, score high on your ACT's and go to an actual college, then finally get a job that pays fifty times more than he'll ever make.

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Yeah, I geuss your right. That does make a hell of a lot more sense but still your supposed to be rewarded for doing something good geuss i've learned my lesson hmph. :angry: :grr:

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I feel bad for you man, sounds like you got the shaft. It's been happening to kids for just over 25 years now though, and there is no end in sight. I think I can help you understand this. Not that he is right, but you need to think out of the box to understand. Put yourself in the shoes of your admin. You find a security hole. You tell him. He feels human emotion, one of which is "What a snot nosed little fuck. I spend all this time setting up this network, and he is going to keep fucking with it no matter how 'secure' we make it. Ungrateful little kid." (his POV most likely).

He now has a couple options. He can forget this ever happened (his human pride makes that pretty hard). He can ensure his superiors you didn't find anything serious, though you did break the rules and should be dealt with accordingly (what probably happened). He can play the 'evil kid that is never going to stop poking where he shouldn't no matter how secure or useful the network is as a whole' card (a little of this was probably thrown in). He can go to bat for you and say that you were only trying to help though you went against a couple different rules the institution has in place (this isn't going to happen dude).

Together with all of this, it's just easier for all involved to have you out of the picture. Less problems == good, it's human nature. So while it may not be totally fair, it isn't going to change.

That's why everyone and thier mother says "Don't fuck around at school, it isn't worth it."

Some kid somewhere is reading this right now and thinking, "Fuck that, I won't get caught||only trying to help||don't give a shit". He's the type that learns the easiest for himself. Like you. It's a pain in the ass to be that guy. Trust me, I was too. :)

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School administrators are like used car salesmen. Sure, they're administrators, but they aren't necessarily top of the line. They mostly fix printers, and they have to be around school-age kids all day. Just remember, they aren't human, they aren't human at all.

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I agree with Evolve.

This really depends on the person you're dealing with. In junior high, I got expelled from using the computers for a year. The school contracted out admins, and no one in the school really understood computers. Needless to say, I was kicked out for something I shouldn't have been kicked out for.

But in high school, there were some wonderful profs. I had tons of fun hacking (in the traditional sense). I'd walk up to one of the profs I knew, and I'd be like "hey can I borrow some cat5 for this other class?" and he'd be like "sure! take some from here." And I know he fostered plenty of others just the same. In fact, the whole school network was run by (talented) students under his guidance. So really, its all about who the person is.

If the story happened the way you described it, then I'm sorry the person you dealt with was a prick.

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it may just be my old school. We were asked to find weaknesses in our schools network.

Hell the school i attended we were only allowed to attend one computer class a year because the class was half a day and our teacher and the other teacher used to set up a wargame box in our classrooms one for the A+ computer repair and one for the cisco class and we held class wargames one class keeping there box secure and trying to root the other classes box.

Our Teachers were cool as hell. I remember going to VICA Indiana State Compititon in indianapolis and when we got there we basicly had freedom even though we where on a fieldtrip. We did what ever we want including having Female students in our hotelroom.

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Althought I don't agree with fucking with school computers. Not because it is illegal, but because of situations like this. I believe that is why it's been said several times on this forum. I would think the best way to go about this is to create an anonymous email account, and write the admin.

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Hell the school i attended we were only allowed to attend one computer class a year because the class was half a day and our teacher and the other teacher used to set up a wargame box in our classrooms one for the A+ computer repair and one for the cisco class and we held class wargames one class keeping there box secure and trying to root the other classes box.

Our Teachers were cool as hell. I remember going to VICA Indiana State Compititon in indianapolis and when we got there we basicly had freedom even though we where on a fieldtrip. We did what ever we want including having Female students in our hotelroom.

How the hell do you guys get so lucky? the best we have at my school is a Java class, but most people fail because our teacher doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. Then my school admins try and be the best BOFH they can be. I truely envy you guys.

I live in South Dakota, they say we have the best student to computer ratio in the country but it's BS because half of them are at any one time. Most computers have XP running on a pentium 3 and 128 of RAM so they take 10 minutes to boot. If we try and have bot dreamweaver and IE open at the same time the PC will crash.

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we had a vocational education school in our school district that was part of the school system and I would go to my regular high school for the first half then drive or take a buss to the voctional school for the last half of the day the school is call the hammond Area career center

the school districts web site

http://hammond.k12.in.us/

the career centers website

http://hammond.k12.in.us/acc.htm

Edited by darkraider
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People do not understand technology.

What of the above sentence don't you get? Good! Then don't go and give your school a free security audit. They don't understand.

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Heres how you get back at him; stop screwing around on the school's network, do your homework and graduate, score high on your ACT's and go to an actual college, then finally get a job that pays fifty times more than he'll ever make.

Then with all of your wealth, you can bang porn stars and get it on film. You can then send the recorded videos to this admin's address. On each video, you should mention the admin by name and mention that he should have closed the finger port. Only joking. :-)

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People do not understand technology.
This is so true, not just in the educational arena. One company I used to work for had an application built by EDS called Security Server that allowed users to authenticate to the company's databases. One day I was running a sniffer (yes, I am allowed to do that) and noticed the usernames and passwords being sent in plain text. When I approached the management, they didn't care. They were not concerned because all of the passwords were encrypted on the database, so they weren't worried... They didn't understand that I could get all the passwords that I wanted without breaking into the database. Idiots!

Too many companies view security as an insurance policy they will never use. It's amazing that more companies have not been breached yet. It sucks that you got busted for trying to help make the school network better.

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Thanks guys that helped me understand it a little better, but still, it is pretty messed up.

Suppose if were to bring my OWN personal computer to school, what do you think would happen. ^_^ lol

I still dont get why they had a voulinteer admin though :wacko::wacko:

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umm bringing your computer to school is a bad idea trust me lol.

But yeah don't screw with a school computer. I still have to go get my college account unlocked and see what they say about why they never reactivated it

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back in like 8th grade, i figured out that i could create files on the "super sexurity serverzz", so me and my friends made folders with random names like "supercoolzer0burn" and used them to put text files in, sort of like email. we also used windows messenger i think? to talk to each other during class. what else...hmmm my friend garret msg *' the whole school district on accident one time, and got 2 days of in school suspension and a "wow howd you do that" from the principals. yeah, if your going to play around, fine, but just dont go up and be like "I can do this this and this and take your account." they get pissed. here is the logic trail they follow:

-He knows how to steal my account.

-Nice for telling me.

-I bet he's rubbing it in my face.

-He knows more.

-He'll do it again.

-Lets ban him.

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I think we can all agree that FUCKING WITH SCHOOL COMPUTERS IS A BAD IDEA ... and that almost everybody on this forum has their shitty story to tell.

I had this SUPER ANAL school tech back in 7th grade who banned me from using the computer for a fucking year just because I walked up to my friends computer and pointed to the C Drive Icon and said that if you right click it you can find out the Properties ... Im not fucking joking - that guy had serious issues and actually hired "Undercover Library Workers" (voluntary snitch students) to spy on us from around corners to make sure that I never touched a computer again or that other uses never closed the Encarta Encyclopedia (At my old school we were only allowed to use Encarta and would be punished if we closed out of the application!)

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i would have to agree with everyone else on this topic. I was kicked out of my last school for violations of their computing policy. Dont screw with a schools computer no matter how tempting. They will never understand and have no desire to hear your side of the story.

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i still can't figure out why schools are the one business that are so paranoid about abuse of their computer systems. it might be because they are always very into punishing kids, making an example out of students. at one school i went to, chewing gum was grounds for expulsion from the school.

schools usually have really shitty pay for their employees which is why they're left with the shitty admins. that or the admins figger it's a cushy job. the schools faculty never knows jack about computers, so all the admin has to do is concoct this story about an evil hacker who can turn off power grids and launch nuclear missles (someone's seen too many 80's hacker movies) and the dean or whatever pisses his or her pants and expels the kid. my guess is they have a quota for number of kids they need to expel or drop out by the end of the year to keep their waiting list short for new applicants.

some of you know my sob story; kicked out of school for something i didn't do, then the incident goes on my permanent record and all of a sudden i'm a Communist and can't get into any other schools except the shitty ones, continually harassed and fucked over for misconceptions about my skills. well i decided "fuck school" and haven't looked back since.

my suggestion: go ahead and report every single vulnerability. get kicked out. then you can go get your GED and pass 4 years of bull-fucking-shit and get on to college or a real job.

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from what i can figure admins usally dont want to admit that they are doing a sub par job when it comes to security. This is why they will ussally string a student up when they do something on the network that they are not suppose to. Of course you have to look at from their perspcetive also. They have hundreds of computers to manage not to mention the servers, cableing, and network devices, most see security as an after-thought to useablilty. So when a student comes foward with something they would rather get them in trouble than have to worry going around plugging everyhole in the system on top of thier other duties.

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