Apoc

Router Setup in my house!? HELP!

12 posts in this topic

Ok, I just re-arranged all of my network equipment and it currently looks something like the .bmp I attached.

networklayout.jpg

Now, I want to be able to connect my WinXP Laptop to the Netgear WGT624 by using the WGTB511T PC-Card that I got with the Router bundle. I wan't to use that because it has the 108mbps (over-rated) network throughput which is going to be a LOT faster than my original Apple Airport that I have setup now.

I have to keep the Apple Airport setup so my iBook can still connect (it only has an original Airport card in it naturally).

For some reason when I try to connect to the Netgear router for setup, I don't get a response. My thought is that I cant have the one behind the Linksys RV082 but I am not sure. Right now everything is in place where I want it so if I can avoid having to take things down and re-arrange them, that would be nice. Is there a way to get the netgear router to act simply as an AP and not a router?

Thanks for the help guys!

Network_Layout.bmp

Edited by Apoc
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I have a very similar set up at my house and to get my two routers talking I had to use a crossover cable from my WGT624 to my Netgear FR328S. This is required because it's two devices connecting to each other.

While you cannot have the WGT624 simply act as an AP, you can turn off its' DHCP server to not serve separate requests. If you wanted just an AP, should've bought one (even though they do not bundle those with NIC cards IIRC).

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I have a very similar set up at my house and to get my two routers talking I had to use a crossover cable from my WGT624 to my Netgear FR328S.  This is required because it's two devices connecting to each other.

While you cannot have the WGT624 simply act as an AP, you can turn off its' DHCP server to not serve separate requests.  If you wanted just an AP, should've bought one (even though they do not bundle those with NIC cards IIRC).

Actually you should be able to get it to act as an AP. Just think of it as separate components. It's a router with its lan side hooked into a switch and an AP hooked into the same switch. So:

1. Turn off the dhcp server.

2. Set a static ip on the lan side of the router (not absolutely necessary, but it will save you hassle trying to figure out it's dhcp assigned address if you want to change settings later).

3. Setup the wireless SSID, encryption, etc like normal.

4. Hook the line from your linksys into the switch (lan side) using either a crossover or the uplink port on the switch.

5. Ignore the router port... You don't need it.

I do this with an old dlink DI-514 and it works just like an AP hooked to a switch...

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"If you wanted just an AP, should've bought one" Not necessarily... You can turn a router in to an AP, and its quite easy. Disable DHCP and don't use the WAN. Now you have an AP + switch with a bunch of extra functionality that you can use later.

Double NAT will segment the LAN side of the Netgear router from the LAN of the Linksys. It sounds like you want what's on the LAN of the NG to talk to the rest of your network. If you want to take advantage of the speeds offered by your new wireless gear, then you really don't want to do double NAT.

Here is what you should do:

Start by unplugging the network cable to the Netgear.

1. Determine the LAN IP range on the Linksys. On a computer connected to the LAN, enter IPCONFIG from a command prompt. I think the default is 192.168.1.0 for the network address on Linksys... 1.1 for the LAN port. You will be assigning the LAN IP of the NG an address in this range, so figure out a free address.

2. Connect wirelessly to the Netgear. From a command prompt, enter IPCONFIG/RELEASE, then IPCONFIG/RENEW. Note the Default Gateway address. Thats the LAN IP of the netgear. Enter that address to access the web config. If you can't pull an IP, either DHCP is off on the Netgear, or you don't have a good "physical" connection. My guess is the latter.

3. From the Netgears config, disable the DHCP server (you will use the Linksys for as DHCP).

4. Assign the Netgear a new LAN IP. Give it a free address on the same network as the Linksys (192.168.1.2 ??). This step isnt really necessary, but it will allow you to access the config again from a computer connected to your network. Remeber this address. You will use it to get back in to the config of the NG.

5. From a LAN port on the Linksys, connect to a cable to the LAN port on the Netgear. Check for solid link lights.

6. Connect wirelessly to the Netgear. From a command prompt, enter IPCONFIG/RELEASE then IPCONFIG/RENEW. You will obtain a new address from the Linksys DHCP server.

7. ENABLE WPA!

8. Enjoy the improved performance on your wlan.

I'd like to add that double nat can be useful. Use one LAN as a "DMZ" (P2P, network testing, honeypot, shit you dont care if its compromosed), and the other for your "protected" network.

Hope that helped...

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Well, I'm not going to download the BMP ... *sighs* .. but you guys are thinking too tough.

I would think the Apple Airport supports RIP, I'm sure the Netgear one has RIP. Enable RIP on both, RIP is very nice. It would allow you to set those up and use all of them.

For some reason when I try to connect to the Netgear router for setup, I don't get a response.

As for that, I'd try and just connect your computer to it physically and disconnect it and you from everything else and then configure it.

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In order to set this up properly you must bypass the WAN interfaces on every router except your Linksys RV082. Double NAT is never a good thing, it is a hack way to have seperate network, and will cause more problems then it solves. Ensure the management IP address of each router (the 192.168.0.1 or 192.168.1.1 address) is set in the same network (192.168.0.1 for Linksys RV082, 192.168.0.2 for the next, and so on), and ensure that dhcp is disable on each router except the RV082. I had to doublecheck the WGT624, which does not support RIP, and neither does the apple airport. Why don't you just connect your apple via airport to the WGT624, it will connect.....

Now, a couple things to consider: Double NAT is not your friend, it does not properly segment routers, it causes problems. If you want to have multiple networks, do it right. That doesn't always mean expensive. I'm sure you can pick up a PC for under $100, grab a couple NICs, and have a *nix router capable of routing between subnets, and filtering traffic between them. NAT in itself is a kludge, now you have a kludge on top of a kludge. Its not anywhere near ideal.

Router configured as an AP vs AP: When you want an AP it is usually better to save up and buy an AP. Reasons for this are that retail (home) routers are configured to do all their work through their WAN interface. That means right away that you lose NTP. Also, as you purchased a home router, it won't support useful stuff like syslog, SNMP, etc. Additionally you have the WAN interface wasting resources by trying to renew its address, or bring up pppoe links unless you configure it with a static IP. Your network is also getting to the point where it would be worth spending the time and money to do it right, instead of bringing together a whole bunch of products that weren't actually meant to play together, but thats just my opinion.

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Can you point me to some info that explains why/how double nat is bad? Not trying to challenge you, I'd just like to learn what you know. Thanks!

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Here's a exerpt from Netgears site about doubleNAT. It was just chance that I found it on netgears site:

Double NAT (as the phrase is used by NETGEAR) means connecting one router directly behind another for the purpose of having multiple LANs. Double NAT may cause problems with VPN and visiting secure sites with SSL.

Reverse NAT, not supported by NETGEAR, and not a common process for a typical home user, converts all requests for Internet IPs into different addresses. NETGEAR equipment does not hide public IP addresses, and therefore cannot do Reverse NAT. The term Double NAT is used for non-NETGEAR equipment when both NAT and Reverse NAT are used.

Here's a FAQ from DSLreports about why doublenat can be bad:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13087961

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FYI, the WGT624 DOES support RIP v1 and v2, it just doesn't do it very well because RIP isn't the greatest thing in the world to begin with.

Double NATing is a "cheap" way of creating subnets or VLANs for a small home network. For my purposes, my girlfriend is the only person that resides on my WGT624 router so transgressing two NATed networks isn't a real problem for her and it works OK as a solution.

I was amazed people said you can use this router as a simple AP which isn't true. It's still going to route its packets just like a router because that's what it is built to do. Not using the WAN port for connections to another router to avoid 'routing' is a silly observation and one that just won't fly. Disabling DHCP is about the /only/ step you have to wrangle this WGT624 from router to AP because it still is going to utilize its' "firewall" capabilities for the traffic going over the wireless connection.

One thing I didn't originally post about is, why do you NEED the airport? Your airport card isn't tied to anything Apple makes and will work on any AP unless you have no idea what you're doing. I would never imagine that Apple would actually use a Broadcom miniPCI card that ONLY works with Apple Airports, that'd be pretty stupid on Apple's behalf.

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Alright, I paid about $250 for the linksys router and it does quite a bit more than I fully understand but I like the capability because I plan on learning more about networking as I go. I bought the Netgear WGT624 router bundle because it was on sale for $30 and I figured I could use the speed while surfing wirelessly with my PC. I need the apple to still connect through the Airport so I dont sacrifice the performace for my PC by having to run the WGT624 in .b+.g mode at the same time. I want to only run it in Netgears special 108mbps interface.

Now, it is the Christmas season and I don't have the money to spend on my home network at the time so I want to make sue with what I have. In the end, I would like to keep the Linksys because I have already built a nice little place into my wall for it to sit. If I need more options, I will build a MiniITX computer and have it fit in a similar size case so it can fit into the same spot and then I will run smoothwall or something similar on it. But, I will only do that if absolutely necessary and it will only be done in the future.

All that aside, Im still not sure I fully understand what to do, I mean there are about 5 different sets of directions and I don't know which one is most suitable to me and which one will work the best/most efficiently.

Do I just plug an ethernet cable from the Netgear WGT624 to my laptop in say port one from its switch and leave everything else unplugged (including its WAN port). Once I do that, I should be able to connect to the router via 192.168.0.1 correct?

Once I do that I need to disable the DHCP and set it to a static address. The Linksys default gateway is: 192.168.1.1 (I use this to connect to the RV082's settings). Then I have 5 different computer connected to the switch on the Linksys so I should set the WGT624's static address to be 192.168.1.15 (or something that would be guaranteed to be open).

After that to be honest, I am kind of lost for what to do. I mean the whole release/renew step isn't very clear. Sorry I'm not catching on right away but I havent had much sleep and wrestling practices along with not eating to cut weight has really affected me.

Thanks so far guys, I REALLY appreciate all the help no matter how small.

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I bought the Netgear WGT624 router bundle because it was on sale for $30 and I figured I could use the speed while surfing wirelessly with my PC. I need the apple to still connect through the Airport so I dont sacrifice the performace for my PC by having to run the WGT624 in .b+.g mode at the same time. I want to only run it in Netgears special 108mbps interface.

Then you ended up wasting money on the Netgear to only use PC with it and also keep your other AP. 108 mode isn't anything special and it's not really that much faster, I disabled XR and 108 mode on mine because I found it to be good marketing hype on Netgear's behalf.

Do I just plug an ethernet cable from the Netgear WGT624 to my laptop in say port one from its switch and leave everything else unplugged (including its WAN port). Once I do that, I should be able to connect to the router via 192.168.0.1 correct?

You're going to need to connect the WGT624 to the Linksys using a crossover cable unless EVERY port on the Linksys is Auto-Uplink/AUTO-MDXII which I highly doubt it is. This is REQUIRED PERIOD. You'll also want to set a static IP on the WGT624 so you can access it for management purposes.

Once I do that I need to disable the DHCP and set it to a static address. The Linksys default gateway is:  192.168.1.1 (I use this to connect to the RV082's settings). Then I have 5 different computer connected to the switch on the Linksys so I should set the WGT624's static address to be 192.168.1.15 (or something that would be guaranteed to be open).

This is correct. As I said in my very first post, I have a setup almost identical to your's and I'm telling you what I had to do to get my WGT624 functioning properly.

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I had to doublecheck the WGT624, which does not support RIP, and neither does the apple airport.

well, thats crap.

FYI, the WGT624 DOES support RIP v1 and v2, it just doesn't do it very well because RIP isn't the greatest thing in the world to begin with.

Might not be, but it works if thats all the stuff you got for a quick fix.

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