shizzle

(still in the editing process)

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havtv 2 has been "(still in the editing process)" for 6 months...So whats the deal, stank dog?

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he's busy, cut him slack, or do your own show. these posts about hacktv taking forever get old damnit. HackTV can be released whenever he feels like it.

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havtv 2 has been "(still in the editing process)" for 6 months...So whats the deal, stank dog?

its "dawg" and listen to episode 101 of BRR for an update.

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havtv 2 has been "(still in the editing process)" for 6 months...So whats the deal, stank dog?

Perhabs you don't understand what is entailed in the video editing process allow me to explain...

First things first, each clip must be viewed for content. What this means is someone has to watch all the raw footage (about 18 gigs worth just for the record) and decide what is to stay and what is to go.

Then, certain portions of the screen have to blured out, as were IP address and the like for the other episodes. This is not an easy process. Having done some of this work myself I'll be more then happy to enlighten you as to what's involved. First, the raw clip must be incorperated into a project. That's all fine and dandy not too tough. Then a title has to be added the size of each individual item to be blured must be added. For Hack TV episode two it get's as complex as 6 different fields for one 4 minute segment. Since a lot of HackTV is shot free handed (i.e. no tripod) the camera shakes around so the matte must be moved frame by frame (30 frames a second in this case, well 29.97 to be exact). That means for every second of video, as many as 30 changes to the horizontal scale, vertical scale, and rotation have to be made by hand. Sure there are key frames (which is how you can make something move accorind to slow movment) but with a shaky field of view key frames are needed every 5 frames, and at times as many as one key frame per frame is needed. Also you have to account for zooming in and out, scrolling items on a computer screen etc etc. Once the matte's have all been done, they must be exported to seperate clips and then re incorperated into the raw clip. Along with this a mozaic effect must be added to a masked portion of the clip so that instead of just a white box there is a blured field. After this key frame filters must be attached, and then the entire sequence has to be watched again FRAME BY FRAME to make sure nothing slipped by.

Beyond this there is some audio editing that must take place incase someone says something that they shouldn't have, this involves playing a sound over top of spoke words, and then resyncing the audio to the video. If your off by even 1 frame the audio won't match the video and it'll look silly and be of poor quality.

Then, special sequences must be added, such as the showing of a web page, or a frame hold or some other seemingly simple, yet painstakenly implemented effect must be added. Beyond this, the audio must then again be resynced.

After all this, the clips must be put into order in a main sequence, but not before exporting each raw clip to it's own seqence, files the size of 3 and 4 gigs with 12 video tracks take quite a while to render. In this case, a 4 minute clip took 7 hours to render on a 2.8 pentium 4 with a gig of ram. After each sequnce is reneder it must be imported into premier, another time consuming process but by no means as long as the orignal rendering, and transitiong effects must be added. These include fades, wipes, audio fades inbetween sequnces etc etc. This two must be perfectly synced otherwise their will be a noitceable gab.

Following that, certain sequnces have to be treated with video filters to improve their video and audio. These include brightness and contrast, levels, and a few others. Then special filters must be added, such as "steady cam" in an attempt to take away the distraction that results from a moving camera.

As if all that wasn't enough the entire sequence must be rendered. A roughly 30-40 minute show, at a frame rate of 29.97 frames a second takes a SUBSTANTIAL ammount of time to render. Then this clip must be watched to check for flow and to ensure everything matches up. If not this raw data must be thrown away, the sequences fixed, and then re rendered.

Finnaly, the clip must be converted from it's massive size (think 6-7 GB) to something that is downloadable and shareable, (down to the 130 meg range). Video codec's must be applied, audio codec's, then the compression algorthims etc etc. Encoding of this nature can easily take upwards of a day, and I hate to say it but with files this big it's not always 100% succesful, so the need arises to simply "try again".

From here these clips then can be given final approval and released. From start to finish it's quite a long process. Think of a TV sitcom, that half hour show is the result of 1,000's of hours of work on the behalf of dozens of people. Hack TV is at most 10 people working in their spare time to provide something for no compensation. It's a lot of work.

Basically what I'm getting at is this, when it's ready it'll be ready. It's not an easy thing to do and requires a person with a good working knowledge of how this video and audio editing tools work. Not only that but a person who's willing to do it out of the goodness of their heart, when they could be getting paid serious bucks to do video editing for some big corporation. In the mean time just please stop to think about how much work is involved and please be patient. DDP wants to release this episode so badly their their molar's hurt. It'll be out as soon as possible. Look for it in the near future!

-Dr^ZigMan

(Self proclaimed Adobe Premier Master)

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Beyond this there is some audio editing that must take place incase someone says something that they shouldn't have, this involves playing a sound over top of spoke words, and then resyncing the audio to the video. If your off by even 1 frame the audio won't match the video and it'll look silly and be of poor quality.

Man i was a bit disappointed that your audio editing explanation was the smallest paragraph. haha

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havtv 2 has been "(still in the editing process)" for 6 months...So whats the deal, stank dog?

Perhabs you don't understand what is entailed in the video editing process allow me to explain...

First things first, each clip must be viewed for content. What this means is someone has to watch all the raw footage (about 18 gigs worth just for the record) and decide what is to stay and what is to go.

Then, certain portions of the screen have to blured out, as were IP address and the like for the other episodes. This is not an easy process. Having done some of this work myself I'll be more then happy to enlighten you as to what's involved. First, the raw clip must be incorperated into a project. That's all fine and dandy not too tough. Then a title has to be added the size of each individual item to be blured must be added. For Hack TV episode two it get's as complex as 6 different fields for one 4 minute segment. Since a lot of HackTV is shot free handed (i.e. no tripod) the camera shakes around so the matte must be moved frame by frame (30 frames a second in this case, well 29.97 to be exact). That means for every second of video, as many as 30 changes to the horizontal scale, vertical scale, and rotation have to be made by hand. Sure there are key frames (which is how you can make something move accorind to slow movment) but with a shaky field of view key frames are needed every 5 frames, and at times as many as one key frame per frame is needed. Also you have to account for zooming in and out, scrolling items on a computer screen etc etc. Once the matte's have all been done, they must be exported to seperate clips and then re incorperated into the raw clip. Along with this a mozaic effect must be added to a masked portion of the clip so that instead of just a white box there is a blured field. After this key frame filters must be attached, and then the entire sequence has to be watched again FRAME BY FRAME to make sure nothing slipped by.

Beyond this there is some audio editing that must take place incase someone says something that they shouldn't have, this involves playing a sound over top of spoke words, and then resyncing the audio to the video. If your off by even 1 frame the audio won't match the video and it'll look silly and be of poor quality.

Then, special sequences must be added, such as the showing of a web page, or a frame hold or some other seemingly simple, yet painstakenly implemented effect must be added. Beyond this, the audio must then again be resynced.

After all this, the clips must be put into order in a main sequence, but not before exporting each raw clip to it's own seqence, files the size of 3 and 4 gigs with 12 video tracks take quite a while to render. In this case, a 4 minute clip took 7 hours to render on a 2.8 pentium 4 with a gig of ram. After each sequnce is reneder it must be imported into premier, another time consuming process but by no means as long as the orignal rendering, and transitiong effects must be added. These include fades, wipes, audio fades inbetween sequnces etc etc. This two must be perfectly synced otherwise their will be a noitceable gab.

Following that, certain sequnces have to be treated with video filters to improve their video and audio. These include brightness and contrast, levels, and a few others. Then special filters must be added, such as "steady cam" in an attempt to take away the distraction that results from a moving camera.

As if all that wasn't enough the entire sequence must be rendered. A roughly 30-40 minute show, at a frame rate of 29.97 frames a second takes a SUBSTANTIAL ammount of time to render. Then this clip must be watched to check for flow and to ensure everything matches up. If not this raw data must be thrown away, the sequences fixed, and then re rendered.

Finnaly, the clip must be converted from it's massive size (think 6-7 GB) to something that is downloadable and shareable, (down to the 130 meg range). Video codec's must be applied, audio codec's, then the compression algorthims etc etc. Encoding of this nature can easily take upwards of a day, and I hate to say it but with files this big it's not always 100% succesful, so the need arises to simply "try again".

From here these clips then can be given final approval and released. From start to finish it's quite a long process. Think of a TV sitcom, that half hour show is the result of 1,000's of hours of work on the behalf of dozens of people. Hack TV is at most 10 people working in their spare time to provide something for no compensation. It's a lot of work.

Basically what I'm getting at is this, when it's ready it'll be ready. It's not an easy thing to do and requires a person with a good working knowledge of how this video and audio editing tools work. Not only that but a person who's willing to do it out of the goodness of their heart, when they could be getting paid serious bucks to do video editing for some big corporation. In the mean time just please stop to think about how much work is involved and please be patient. DDP wants to release this episode so badly their their molar's hurt. It'll be out as soon as possible. Look for it in the near future!

-Dr^ZigMan

(Self proclaimed Adobe Premier Master)

I think you well covered the fact of the process but the real factor that you briefly covered is this is IN SPARE TIME.. there is no 9-5 schedule for the project. If you want them to work faster.. better be willing to offer $78+ an hour because thats a basic starting fee and thats damn cheapest I could find it.

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Oh you could work in 24fps too .... i was talking to doug about this the other day

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6 months isn't all that long.

I'll also vouch for the "making a show takes a long while to complete damnit".

Oh and if you're leet/purist, its all about 29.97 :P

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it's all about 24fps, but you have to actually "film" right. (being really steady while shooting)

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it's all about 24fps, but you have to actually "film" right.  (being really steady while shooting)

sorry, we are not "the broken" and our stuff isn't filmed in a studio (or a studio apartment a la "systm") in front of a tripod. We are more like field reporters. ;)

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it's all about 24fps, but you have to actually "film" right.  (being really steady while shooting)

sorry, we are not "the broken" and our stuff isn't filmed in a studio (or a studio apartment a la "systm") in front of a tripod. We are more like field reporters. ;)

Sorry, but they don't use a tripod. If you pay close attention their camera man sways a little. He's holding the camera. It's just one of those tricks that camera men should do in order to keep the viewers entertained visually. It's a subconscious thing, but I've been trained to look for it. You can use the field reporter's style, but you should atleast have some sort of script you're sticking to or you'll loose any speck of professionalism you may be going for. Also, unless you're live you should be doing multiple takes of segments when possible that way you have some to choose from.

That being said I think everyone should just stop nagging about it and wait for it to be finished. Don't try to rush things because quality is important. In the meantime you can work on your own projects. ;)

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Seriously. If you wan't to bitch about the time is takes for HackTV to come out do it in playa-haters and start your own damn show. There are plenty of shows to watch in the meantime. Stank is really busy as you can imagine. If you really wanted to speed up the process you could help out. I don't know what you could help on that wouldn't have info they wouldn't want you to have though.

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you don't need techtv money or a techtv studio to produce what they did. they have what anyone can do now and days thanks to comptuers and editing.

a good camera, more than a basic handy cam, spend some money if you want good quality.

a camera man...

a script...

and editing skills.

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you don't need techtv money or a techtv studio to produce what they did.  they have what anyone can do now and days thanks to comptuers and editing.

a good camera, more than a basic handy cam, spend some money if you want good quality.

a camera man...

a script...

and editing skills.

You forgot the essential "WOMEN!" clause in that?!

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You also forgot 40's of O.E. :P

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ntheory it's not that bad to be done on a a 29.97fps camera. j00 just have to be skill3dz0rz. This series i'm working on is always a SLOW camera movment for the most part.

But yeah that camcorder is the shit. Something i've been saving up for these past few months is a real camera.

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"Camcorder"...That, boys, is a Canon XL2. It has three 1/3" CCDs with color shifting technology to get a better image quality than most 1/2" CCD cameras. It also has interchangeable lenses and, with an adapter, can use lenses from 35mm film cameras. If you've ever seen....hmmm...pretty much any documentary or documentary-style film in the past 5 years or so, it used either a Canon XL2 or one of the previous models (XL1 or XL1s).

I have been DROOLING over this camera for over half a decade now. It is just SO beautiful...the only problem is that it doesn't do HD. If you want a really sexy camera, check out JVC and Sony's new HDDV cameras...mmmmm 1028i resolution...

The Abstruse One

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"Camcorder"...That, boys, is a Canon XL2.  It has three 1/3" CCDs with color shifting technology to get a better image quality than most 1/2" CCD cameras.  It also has interchangeable lenses and, with an adapter, can use lenses from 35mm film cameras.  If you've ever seen....hmmm...pretty much any documentary or documentary-style film in the past 5 years or so, it used either a Canon XL2 or one of the previous models (XL1 or XL1s).

I have been DROOLING over this camera for over half a decade now.  It is just SO beautiful...the only problem is that it doesn't do HD.  If you want a really sexy camera, check out JVC and Sony's new HDDV cameras...mmmmm 1028i resolution...

The Abstruse One

You sound as if you're back in the 50's, hiding out in your garage with some friends while showing them the centerfold from a Playboy you smuggled out of your father's sock drawer. :D

Personally, I didn't like the Canons (this is back in the days of the XL-1). I preferred Sony's line. Nowadays, I'd have to do my research.

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Yeah I hear Sony and Panasonic make good pro cameras.

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