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stevecronin

Should Microsoft Be Broken Up By The Government?

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I agree that MS is everywhere and understand the potenial impact that a monopoly has on an economic system such as capitalism. However, that being said MS has done so well because they have succeeded in putting powerful computing into laymen's terms. When 'Aunt Myl' wants to get on the internet, print out a document, or even play solitare she doesnt want to have to worry about hardware detection, proper drivers, or compiling binary files. MS has brought these steps down to minimal issues and thats why she and the rest of her family buy MS products. She doesnt want know how things work, she just wants them to. If you dont want to support Bill's stuff, support Steve Jobs, Bill Joy, or Michael Cowpland. You certainly have that right and option.

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hrrrm, would not the government save moeny if they used linux, it being free and all...

well, it doesnt matter to me, Gates is a hell of a smart guy..

i feel like he worked hard... he is a good guy, and he is donating tons of money...

Let it be, who knows what will happen when Gates dies...

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Hopefully we won't need intervention from the government to topple Microsoft.

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IMHO, it is pretty hard to deny that Microsoft has a monopoly on Operating Systems and is in violation of US anti-trust laws.

I have one thing, and I will say this as nicely as possible.

Bullshit

What about Mac OS? Do you want commercial OS's? Here is a list!

AIX

AmigaOS

eComStation

Hancom Linux

HP-UX

IBM PC-DOS

IRIX

Linspire

LynxOS

Mac OS X

Mac OS X Server

MontaVista Linux

MorphOS

Novell NetWare

OpenVMS

OS/2 Warp

PhatLinux

QNX

Red Hat Desktop

Red Hat Enterprise Linux

RISC-OS

SmoothWall Ltd.

Sun Java Desktop System

Sun Solaris OS

SuSE Home Users

SuSE LINUX Server

Tru64 UNIX

Commercial OS's. Free OS's?

Amiga Research OS

Arch Linux

Ares Desktop

BeOS Max

BeOS Personal

BlueCat Linux

Brix

Calyptos

Cefarix

Clicker32

ClosedBSD

Conectiva

Coyote Linux

CP/M

Darwin

Debian GNU/HURD

Debian GNU/Linux

Debian GNU/NetBSD

DragonLinux

eCos

EnGarde Linux

ERIKA

EROS

Fedora Core

Fiasco

FIRE

FlightLinux

FreeBSD

FreeDOS

GazOS

GeekOS

GEM

Gemini Nucleus

GenSTEP

Gentoo Linux

GNU/Lesbian Linux

Immunix

IPCop

JBLinux

KNOPPIX Linux Live

Komodo

KRUD

Kurumin Linux

LainOS

LibraNet Linux

Linux Antarctica

Linux From Scratch

Linux Router Project

Lycoris Desktop/LX

Mandrakelinux

Mandrakesoft Business

Menuet

Minix

MkLinux

Mobius

ModulOS

Momonga Linuxd

NetBSD

NewOS

Oberon

Odin

OpenBeOS

OpenBSD

OppcOS

Peanut Linux

PicoBSD

Plan 9

PM_SZ_OS

PowerOS

ReactOS

RDOS

Red Flag Linux

ROCK Linux

Rome

RTEMS

S.Ha.R.K

SkyOS

Slackware Linux

SmoothWall Express

SOT Linux

Spinix

Stampede Linux

Syllable

Tinfoil Hat Linux

TurboLinux

Unununium

Vector Linux

Visual Network OS

VSTa

WINE

WinLinux

Wolverine

Xandros

XTeam Linux

Yellow Dog Linux

yellowTAB Zeta

Yoper

And those are somewhat larger ones. Saying they have a monolply is frankly. Bullshit. Breaking up a company? I find it near communist to think that the government should have any say in what a company can or cannot do in the way of business. Now don't get me wrong I hate microsoft and I would love to see it dissapear as much as the next guy, but I don't think the government should do it for us.

I belive in free-enterprise and that a product should become better by compition. And belive me, MS is fearing compition from other OS's, like Linux or BSD and Mac. They are not a monopoly. You may say "Well linux is free and isnt in the market for money blah blah blah blah so that dosnt make it count!" That isnt true, there are commercial versions of Linux (Redhat for example) that are in the business of making money, and what about Mac OSX? Does everyone forget about them?

I have been running MS free for about 2 and a half years now, I own an Apple Laptop, and I bought all my computers (and the rest have been donated in the worthy cause of AthNET running Free OS's for the sake of learning) and since I decided to be MS free, I havent bought or supported Microsoft in any way, I tell everyone I have the chance to talk to about the subject to stay away from Microsoft, and instead of saying "Oh well they suck cause they are a monopoly and that is bad and I am a noob suck suck suck noob fear!" I present a cause, a reason to go elsewhere. I point out design flaws, how easy spyware infects Microsoft products (Wich is something everyone can relate to) how viruses are designed to pentirate and destroy MS systems, and the registry, its in-ability to handle processing tasts as effeciently, how horrible support is for it, all sorts of things, and in the end, I have helped many of my friends make the 'transition' to a MS free enviroment, by offering my help and support when switching over and so far, not one of them regrets it.

So don't go asking the government to fix our problems for us, they have no business in it. Fix it your own damn selfs, boycot MS, Windows, IE, make your webpages w3 compatable, make software with unix ports if you must have a windows port, make it open source, buy from companys that use Linux/Unix based systems, do your part to make microsoft fear.

~Athnex

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plz tell me how splitting a software company up into smaller companies that make diffenrt things ( which means they wont compete they dont make the same shit !!!) will add any competition to the market ?

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IMHO, it is pretty hard to deny that Microsoft has a monopoly on Operating Systems and is in violation of US anti-trust laws.

I have one thing, and I will say this as nicely as possible.

Bullshit

You can call bullshit, but the courts disagree... From http://www.microsoft-antitrust.gov/ :

Welcome to this web site established for coordinated state enforcement of federal court judgments against the Microsoft Corporation for Microsoft's unlawful monopoly conduct.

I think you're right though in that the best way to wrestle away market share from them is to avoid their products when possible...

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Microsoft is not only a US business, it is a multinational corporation. It is possible that the US government would be able to break them up, but whatever power structure replaces them would probably be a multinational monopoly too, just like most of the companies that make most of the commerical products you consume:

Tyson Foods: meat processing

ADM/Cargill: grain processing

Procter & Gamble: drug-store consumer shit

Mittal: steel production

Companies like packing plants and steel producers were broken up by our government in the previous century, but those monopolies have reconsolidated. They're not total monopolies, at least in the US, but they act as monopolies in the industrialized world as a whole. They are more subtile than the true monopolies of the past. What about Wal-Mart? They are the largest employer in the US, and the largest company on earth. I think that that's a lot more significant than the Microsoft monopoly.

I believe Microsoft is more important because it is dealing with technology, not meat packing. Microsoft controls 95% of the market ccontrol. A monopoly, by definition, is 90% of the market control or higher.

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hrrrm, would not the government save moeny if they used linux, it being free and all...

well, it doesnt matter to me, Gates is a hell of a smart guy..

i feel like he worked hard... he is a good guy, and he is donating tons of money...

Let it be, who knows what will happen when Gates dies...

the es stuff is expensive

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IMHO, it is pretty hard to deny that Microsoft has a monopoly on Operating Systems and is in violation of US anti-trust laws.

I have one thing, and I will say this as nicely as possible.

Bullshit

What about Mac OS? Do you want commercial OS's? Here is a list!

*Black Ratchet edits this incedibly long list of OSes*

And those are somewhat larger ones. Saying they have a monolply is frankly. Bullshit. Breaking up a company? I find it near communist to think that the government should have any say in what a company can or cannot do in the way of business. Now don't get me wrong I hate microsoft and I would love to see it dissapear as much as the next guy, but I don't think the government should do it for us.

I belive in free-enterprise and that a product should become better by compition. And belive me, MS is fearing compition from other OS's, like Linux or BSD and Mac. They are not a monopoly. You may say "Well linux is free and isnt in the market for money blah blah blah blah so that dosnt make it count!" That isnt true, there are commercial versions of Linux (Redhat for example) that are in the business of making money, and what about Mac OSX?    Does everyone forget about them?

I have been running MS free for about 2 and a half years now, I own an Apple Laptop, and I bought all my computers (and the rest have been donated in the worthy cause of AthNET running Free OS's for the sake of learning) and since I decided to be MS free, I havent bought or supported Microsoft in any way, I tell everyone I have the chance to talk to about the subject to stay away from Microsoft, and instead of saying "Oh well they suck cause they are a monopoly and that is bad and I am a noob suck suck suck noob fear!" I present a cause, a reason to go elsewhere. I point out design flaws, how easy spyware infects Microsoft products (Wich is something everyone can relate to)  how viruses are designed to pentirate and destroy MS systems, and the registry, its in-ability to handle processing tasts as effeciently, how horrible support is for it, all sorts of things, and in the end, I have helped many of my friends make the 'transition' to a MS free enviroment, by offering my help and support when switching over and so far, not one of them regrets it.

So don't go asking the government to fix our problems for us, they have no business in it. Fix it your own damn selfs, boycot  MS, Windows, IE, make your webpages w3 compatable, make software with unix ports if you must have a windows port, make it open source, buy from companys that use Linux/Unix based systems, do your part to make microsoft fear.

~Athnex

No, not bullshit. You can't argue with definition...

Microsoft controls 95% of the market control. A monopoly, by definition, is 90% of the market control or higher.

Because of antitrust laws they should be broken up. This is a good thing for the consumers as we will have a faster advance of technology in OSs with competition as well as cheaper software.

Besides, the small open-source movement doesn't cut it anyway, I believe in the market of actual software. (As long as there is competition, not a monopoly.)

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Microsoft's Server OS Market Growing

That article claims that on the server side of things, Micorosft only has a 50-55% maket share. And many ontop of many stats show Apache the most commonly used webserver. 69.37% usage as of May 2005

NetCraft Webserver Stats

Now of course it dosnt show what OS is used, but Apache is mostly used on a linux/unix enviroment.

The only place where Microsoft has a 97% market share is in desktop systems.

Intuit has a 84% market share on Accounting software.

Fool.com Stats

What exactly do you plan on breaking up about microsoft? It is not like MA Bell. MA Bell offered the only service in the United States. You have other choices other than Microsoft, it isnt like phone, where you HAVE to go with your provider for your area. (That isnt the case now days with VOIP and all of that nonsense)

How will you break microsoft up? Split the company up? Make them not make Windows XP anymore, but rewrite their software to not be compatable, and then make them support XP? What? Why should we support a company then, when we don't like what they do, continue to support them, then create rules to make them do what we want?

Lets look at this at the point of Microsoft for a change.

Your goal. Make money. Thats all you have to do as CEO, your duty is to your stockholders, to make them money, not your customers. Now it is a good idea to make a good product and to keep your products up to date and cutting edge.. thats how you make a good profit right? Thats the idea anyways, Now you got your product out there, it isnt the best but.. it works.. for the most part. If you can take care of your computer, keep updates working, and buy lots of software it works.

What gives the government the right to take your company that you have worked very hard with, to make money, to be successful... what gives them the right to take it.. and say "You cant sell your product anymore because people are idiots and mostly buy your product"

People only claim anti-trust when the product isnt good, or when they have compition.

You see.. the problem is.. is that you dont have to buy Microsoft, your not being forced to, thats the problem. Microsoft isnt the only game in town. A computer is something that is becomming to the point where you can get away with saying "I have to have it" but you don't have to have microsoft. Do you need to play games? No, you got a PS2 or gamecube. "Oh I need email" Linux and Mac have working email clients, working web browsers, working office suites (Open Office, Star Office, AbiWord, KOffice)

It isnt a monopoly, ignore what the courts say, the MA Bell monopoly is way different, in many many senses. Microsoft dosnt supply hardware.. only software. (ignoreing keyboards and joysticks of course) keyboards.. joysticks, work on every OS anyways, and then non microsoft keyboards/joysticks work with Microsoft. So what the hell? They are not making computers that only work with Microsoft, they are not forcing us to only use Microsoft with our computer. It isnt a monopoly. Can I be any more clear?

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Anthex-

I would first like to say that I have enjoyed discussing this issue with you and everyone here. I do not with to be labled a "whiny linux lover/ windows hater" or anything else of that matter. I wish to represent my image as someone who is only trying to have a professional discussion on an issue.

Thank you.

Nice, I love it how you provided some facts from articles to back up your opinion. I am a bit confused, however, by this statement.

"The only place where Microsoft has a 97% market share is in desktop systems."

That means desktop systems preinstalled with the Microsoft OS correct?

Also, I realize that Microsoft has other producs and while I am mainly talking about the OS overall, my argument revolves around the future growth of technology that microsoft produces.

If it were up to me, and I don't know the details of the situation, I would split Microsoft up into different companies that were blind to eachother as far as source code went. Their competition would increase the rate of growth and technology, rather than one company doing things at it's convenience so they make more money. (Like the phone company using old technology for 10 years.)

"What gives the government the right to take your company that you have worked very hard with, to make money, to be successful... what gives them the right to take it.. and say "You cant sell your product anymore because people are idiots and mostly buy your product""

We obviously have differing opinions. I believe that Microsoft has a monopoly, by definition, on it's operating system. You don't.

I also believe that, becuase of the anti-trust laws, government should take action against microsoft and split them up. (As far as OS production goes.) A result of this would be better products at cheaper prices. (Therefore better for the consumer.)

The reason is not because "You cant sell your product anymore because people are idiots and mostly buy your product."

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I pledge allegiance to the Window

of the United States of America,

and to the Corporation for which it stands:

one Nation under Microsoft, indivisible,

With Liberty and Justice for all.

I think Microsoft should be split up, but it definitely looks like it won't be possible if they are giving key people in high positions quiet money. The main problem I have with them is their ultra expensive OS. I mean, microsoft is so huge that they don't need to charge $100. Personally I'm not going to ever buy new computer with a microsoft OS, the OS increases the cost of the computer by about $100, but even worse, it supports microsoft haha. Ya sure Bill ha donated lots of money, but at the same time his corporation has taken $100 from just about anyone that has bought a computer with their OS preinstalled.

The only choice is to promote any operating systems not Windows! Linux and BSD! :)

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Windows costs OEMs and computer manufacturors much less than $100, more like $40 from what I have heard.

I think Microsoft should be split up, but it definitely looks like it won't be possible if they are giving key people in high positions quiet money.

They dont have to pay anybody off because they 1. arent involved in illegal activities (the monopoly disputes were settled) and 2. they have plenty of lawyers to take care of any legal isssues. The provider of optional software is not on the same level as your freshwater home provider. You cant choose where your water comes from, so the pricing and policies should be fair. With software, get whatever the fuck you want. You will notice you dont see people standing outside the BMW lot protesting "BMWs are so expensive, THEY SUCK!", because they instead go to one of the other dozen major car manufactors.

Not saying corporations getting too large isnt an issue, its just you cant attack their ways in the ways you bring up.

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i think that microsoft is a big part of the north american economy and even thought its ethics are questionable, it serves its place as a major contributor to the well being of the nation (as well as the world for that matter)

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First off, just like a few others said you don't have to use Windows if you don't want. If you personally don't like Windows then there is nothing stopping you from using something else, and the person who doesn't know much about computers can use Window. For most of us Windows doesn't seem like a good decision but others use it because of the fact that it is a lot more user friendly and that it costs more (cost more, must be good quality rofl ;) )

Also I don't think that the government should get involved with companies like that. If Microsoft is a problem then the consumers should decide the fate of the company based on what they buy, not the government.

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First off, just like a few others said you don't have to use Windows if you don't want. If you personally don't like Windows then there is nothing stopping you from using something else, and the person who doesn't know much about computers can use Window. For most of us Windows doesn't seem like a good decision but others use it because of the fact that it is a lot more user friendly and that it costs more (cost more, must be good quality rofl wink.gif )

Also I don't think that the government should get involved with companies like that. If Microsoft is a problem then the consumers should decide the fate of the company based on what they buy, not the government.

very much, agreed!

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