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Renegade334

Information on the Real ID Act

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:cuss: Write to your senators today!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The parent posts link has a way to contact them, I prefer this page it has prewritten letters:

http://action.downsizedc.org/

Either way they vote on this tomorrow. Write them right now! As soon as you read this. They will be briefed on received letters before tomorrows vote, rest assured. They are nothing if not aware of how their constituents react with letter campaigns. We keep them rich after all.

It is said that for every letter a Congressman or Senator receives, they assume 500 constituents feel that way. Think about that.....and send your letter, it matters more than you think. Especially in a rural area.

Discussion points:

    *  be polite, and respectful;

    * remind them they should read and discuss a bill before voting on it;

    * tell them that this is America, not Communist China;

    * suggest that putting cops and judges in danger is not a good idea;

    * inform them that we must not let the terrorists change American life;

    * tell them that forcing National ID cards on us would be a victory for Osama bin Laden.

These are things they think matter the most and are great points to bring up...cut and paste it if your lazy, just send a letter, today please. Remember the vote is in the morning.

Thanks

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How is this any different than a drivers license?

State controlled ID...

I think its funny people bitch about using SSNs as an identification tool and then bash a national ID program.

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How is this any different than a drivers license?

While used often as an identification tool, the differences between a drivers license and the RealID act are readily apparent to someone who looks into it. For one thing and at the top of my problem list is the fact you will now be _required_ to get this card and carry it to do anything. Yes banking and and buying and selling, but also will require "common machine readable measures ensuring citizenship status and the right to travel"

Allow me to quote the fourth amendment:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

I don't know about you, but I kinda feel like like I should be able to drive or walk for that matter, to Florida or California, without ever once having to present ID if I am a law abiding citizen. If for no other reason than the Constituion (until this amended bill) grants me that express right. You should not need a passport to travel to another state, which this for all intents and purposes is.

Your right about something and answer your own question with this statement:

State controlled ID...

This is a power express granted to states, right? Now a little tenth amendment:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Finally, just for fun, the bill includes a cheery little fascist measure granting the Secretary of Homeland Security “the authority to waive…all laws such Secretary, in such Secretary’s sole discretion, determines necessary to ensure expeditious construction of the barriers and roads” claimed to be vital to national security. No courts are allowed “to hear any cause or claim arising from any action undertaken, or any decision made, by the Secretary of Homeland Security” in this process, nor to order any relief for damages incurred by the exercise of the Almighty Secretary’s unchecked authority. You don’t have to be a tree-hugging liberal or a bible toting fundamentalist to feel wary of giving the non-elected Secretary such singular power to alter the landscape—especially if those roads cut through your back yard. Both liberals and conservatives hold sway through varied cycles. Whichever side of the fence you are on, the other side will hold the same power someday.

I think its funny people bitch about using SSNs as an identification tool and then bash a national ID program.   

Why? someone who worries about said privacy violation A, would also be concerned with violation B. I don't want to offend and normally avoid flames like the plague. It is certainly funnier when someone makes cavalier comments and finds humor in the fact their constitutional right to being secure in their persons and papers is violated. I miss the humor in that.

Imagine where this country would be right now if the generations before 1960 or so had cared as much about liberty and personal freedoms as the last 2 or 3 have. Just because there is not an actual boardroom of people deciding ways to infringe your personal freedom freedom does mean it is not occurring in a more manifest destiny, common belief way. Your leaders have read "The Grand Chessboard" and freely admit it is the most referred-to source on United States domestic policy. The question is...Have you?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...992112?v=glance

If you don't feel like reading it, I'll give a bald-face summation of Brzezinski's politics. He gives it to you, without spin, on p. 40 (while you're reading it, try to keep in mind this man is one of the architects of our nation's foreign policy):

"In brief, for the United States, Eurasian geostrategy involves the purposeful management of geostrategically dynamic states and the careful handling of geopolitically catalytic states, in keeping with the twin interests of America in the short-term preservation of its unique global power and in the long-run transformation of it into increasingly institutionalized global cooperation. To put it in a terminology that hearkens back to the more brutal age of ancient empires, the three grand imperatives of imperial [that is, AMERICAN] geostrategy are to prevent collusion and maintain security dependence among the vassals, to keep tributaries pliant and protected, and to keep the barbarians from coming together."

So what is "The Choice" that the United States has to make in the author's latest book? Either the United States has to dominate the planet alone, or it should "lead" other nations to complicity in our total global hegemony. Don't forget, you fall under that umbrella as well, friend. I urge you to read more about this today, and send your letter before these rights die as others have before them.

Edited by Evolve
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He's right state law doesnt prohibit one from walking around without a state drivers liscense, the only thing I am curious about is that since this is mandatory what happens when it gets stolen from me. Fuck if ill pay for a replacement, with driving thats a different story, you dont have to buy a replacement.

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I don't really know if I want it to pass or not.. but this is kinda old news.. I thought a lot of people subscribed to EFF or else I would have said something about this earlier.. I just slipped my mind until my senator wrote me back.

Edited by ennui
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<_< yea.. :omfg:

this stuff freaks me out.. just one step closer to hearing, "you're papers please".. if you are intrested in these kinda things may i suggest checking out Alex Jone's websites, www.inforwars.com and www.prisonplanet.com

On both these sites he points out many things that people just are not paying attention to. Invstigate!! It was once said that, "He whom trades his freedom for security, deserves neither"

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anyone know what time the vote is scheduled for today?

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it's funny because some people are always talking about europe and how the us should be more like them and more socialist and liberal and everything, but at the first sign of something like this you jump so far to the right it's not even funny. you guys all DO know that many countries issue national ids right? you already have a ssn, and an address, and you pay taxes, relax people, you're already in the system and they know you are, nothing is going to happen with having a national ID.

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They better be fucking free then. We're already getting charged through taxes for them - they better not charge us twice.

Edited by PsypherX
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Fuck...They should at least put a SD Card reader and all that good shit in it, since whats done is done.

I for one will be sending a letter a week for as long as I remember to.

It's a damn shame when something like this happens while people are to busy worshipping the celeb of the month to care.

For the record, I've known for a long time there is no party I fit into the mold for...Far right on issues of liberty, seperation of church and state and all that jazz. To the left on others, indifferent to a few, and ambivilent to a few more. Still, I just wish more people cared. Even if they don't agree. I would be suprised if more people could name the month Presidential elections are held than the day American Idol is on.

I am reminded of a recent poll of high schoolers conducted from my home state of CT. By any standards, 112,003 responses are enough to get a fair representation.

The First Amendment and the freedoms it protects are not appreciated

-- indeed, are actively opposed -- by millions of American high school

students, according to a just-released major survey.

Among the survey’s findings:

* 36 percent of U.S. high school students believe newspapers should

get "government approval" of stories before publishing;

* One in three say the press ought to be more restricted than it

currently is. Asked whether the press enjoys too much freedom, not

enough freedom, or about the right amount, 32 percent say "too much,"

and only 37 percent say it has the right amount.

* Only a bare majority, 51 percent, say the press should be able to

publish freely.

* 17 percent disagree with even this modest statement: "People should

be allowed to express unpopular opinions."

* 30 percent disagree that "Musicians should be allowed to sing songs

with lyrics that others may find offensive."

* 74 percent say it should be illegal to burn or deface an American

flag as a political statement.

These and more shocking results are from a just-released survey of

112,003 high school students across America. The survey was

commissioned by the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation and

conducted last spring by the University of Connecticut.

Amazing...... :cuss:

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so if they already have all that information why do they need more?

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so if they already have all that information why do they need more?

but those are high school students, you forget, high school students aren't *supposed* to care....take that poll when they're 30 and you'll get more accurate numbers.

they need the id cards primarily for illegal immigrants, as a legal immigrant myself, i dont want some mexican fuckhole crossin the border and mooching off of my fuckin tax money. I don't care how it sounds, that's the truth.

they need the id cards because there's a lot of people that want to be bitches and blow shit up and because of this they're gonna card all of us. don't give me that freedom security bullshit, it won't work on me, sometimes you gotta give up some freedoms when people want to kill you.

god...i sound so republican up there :D hahaha

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it's funny because some people are always talking about europe and how the us should be more like them and more socialist and liberal and everything, but at the first sign of something like this you jump so far to the right it's not even funny. you guys all DO know that many countries issue national ids right? you already have a ssn, and an address, and you pay taxes, relax people, you're already in the system and they know you are, nothing is going to happen with having a national ID.

I still think the gov should move to a flat tax, get taxed on what you buy, people too poor to only afford basic needs items wont pay tax, because basic needs items could just not be taxed.

I cant believe it got passed 100-0

Personally I dont see how this got through senate unanomously republicans are against a large intruisve goverment, and consist of people who are of strong christian faith and this has mark of the beast written all over it.

Democrats hate republicans and this bill was drafted by a republican, therefore it is bad and should get voted against.

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I cant believe it got passed 100-0

Personally I don't see how this got through senate unanimously republicans are against a large intrusive government...

Democrats hate republicans and this bill was drafted by a republican, therefore it is bad and should get voted against.

I don't see how a republican drafting a bill pigeonholes it into the "bad" category, but hey like I said before...It more important that you take an interest at least IMO.

As for not seeing how it got a hundred to zero vote, that's pretty simple.

A. These aren't your parents republicans.

B. IIRC the last time a democrat dared stand up to a nonsensical military bill we heard 8 months of "He voted against it before he voted for it" and we know what happened to that guy. Democrats have been good little pups since then. I would think the next democrat to run for president wouldn't want to hear "he voted against the emergency military funding bill" for 8 months, which is what this was porked to. Along with the fact they are spineless pieces of shit, who didn't do what was right because frankly, no one cared.

Add the above to the fact no one (relatively speaking) knew this was even coming to a vote. Do an experiment tomorrow, ask a few people who don't read Slashdot, much less know what it is if they even knew there was a military funding bill, never mind an attachment approved 100-0 that was turned down on its own merits last fall.

See above survey results...we should be in a nice heap of shit when those morons are about 45. It isn't their fault they are idiots, they were never taught any better. Its been about 15 years since I was in school, but I don't remember much being taught to me about the Constitution there, aside from being forced to memorize the first signature and date it was signed for fucks sake. I sound old...lice hacknslash sound republican, but people now are quite different than the 80's. These kids are not going to care to learn as much as previous generations did. They don't have to. Google knows the answer for them.

sometimes you gotta give up some freedoms when people want to kill you.

I disagree. I would rather die than give up the freedoms for children that the Constitution affords them. To many people have already died protecting my liberty afforded me to that document to feel any other way. That isn't rhetorical bullshit...While never in the armed service, I have been shot at by rubber bullets in Miami and herded up in NYC.

they need the id cards because there's a lot of people that want to be bitches and blow shit up and because of this they're gonna card all of us.

That isn't the point of this. Any foreign visitor can go wherever they please with a passport. I shouldn't need one to travel interstate.

My problems with it being unfunded and unecessary are just as pertinent to me. I know I personally have never had an issue with creating docs. Hell try these sometime:

http://www.rightcoaster.com/official.doc

http://www.rightcoaster.com/hst.doc

http://www.rightcoaster.com/b2.doc

http://www.rightcoaster.com/m2.doc

The official one is quite useful...run it through the printer. Then print any document over it :)

Edited by Evolve
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anybody have any information on what kind of technology these cards might be using? i would imagine proximity or smart cards.. what contracting companies are the associated legislators affiliated with?

Edited by duper
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they need the id cards primarily for illegal immigrants, as a legal immigrant myself, i dont want some mexican fuckhole crossin the border and mooching off of my fuckin tax money. I don't care how it sounds, that's the truth.

they need the id cards because there's a lot of people that want to be bitches and blow shit up and because of this they're gonna card all of us. don't give me that freedom security bullshit, it won't work on me, sometimes you gotta give up some freedoms when people want to kill you.

god...i sound so republican up there :D hahaha

They need the id cards for illegal immigrants or terrorists? make up your mind. And how the hell does it equate to use with illegal immigrants? Unless we're going to need to put the cards in a scanner everytime we want to cross a street, it won't. As for some "mexican fuckhole mooching off of your taxes", your foreign ass mooched off of my taxes when you "legally migrated" here. Do you know how much money is spent on your ass when you come here? that mesely 5-25grand sure as hell doesnt cover all the costs of accepting/denying immigrants from legalization everyday. How does an illegal immigrant coming to america mooch of your tax money anyway? Last I checked illegal immigrants pay taxes everyday, maybe not to the same level as everyone, but they still pay taxes. I don't care how you came here, you aren't an american, so you can shut the fuck up with that "mooching off of my tax money."

The republican fucks couldn't pass the ID bill by itself so they throw it into a military spending bill, typical bullshit. If you don't want immigrants, go back to your shithole of a country where you belong and no one wants to go. "I don't care how it sounds, that's the truth."

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I don't know about you, but I kinda feel like like I should be able to drive or walk for that matter, to Florida or California, without ever once having to present ID if I am a law abiding citizen. If for no other reason than the Constituion (until this amended bill) grants me that express right. You should not need a passport to travel to another state, which this for all intents and purposes is.

While this sound nice and all it just simply isn't the way things work. I think I've brought this up on BinRev Radio a few times but just in case...

I live in NY. If you go down to the south Bronx there are SO many people that have criminal records, warrants, etc. There are so many laws on the books that they can stop you for anything (jaywalking, impeding pedestrian traffic [ie. stopping on the sidewalk]). Once they've got you for something like that they can ask for ID. If you don't have it they can hold you until they figure out who you are. They have the right to do this because so many people with warrants would routinely just say that they don't have ID and they did nothing wrong.

Technically, you don't need ID but down there if you don't have it you're fucked. I don't know if you're white or not but if you are (yes, if you ARE white) and you're down there you're going to be stopped. That area is less than 10% white and they'll immediately assume that you're down there buying drugs. People have been held for weeks for not having ID in NYC.

I understand you said that if you're a law abiding citizen that you shouldn't need ID but if you look suspicious (ie. white in a black area, black in a white area), or break the simplest rule you can get asked for ID. If you don't produce it and piss off the police you're the one that's going to be waiting around while someone else finds your ID.

Just something to think about.

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I, for one, am happy that it passed. It really does address a LOT of issues that need to be fixed with the current system. It's sad that the states needed to be dragged kicking and screaming into it.

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Im obviously feeding a troll but...

I don't care how you came here, you aren't an american, so you can shut the fuck up with that "mooching off of my tax money."

The republican fucks couldn't pass the ID bill by itself so they throw it into a military spending bill, typical bullshit. If you don't want immigrants, go back to your shithole of a country where you belong and no one wants to go. "I don't care how it sounds, that's the truth."

Wow. Try reading something besides an O'reilly book sometime. Unless you respond with "I am a Native American of tribe X"...You have nothing you can say that could redeem that. You might as well leave well enough alone.

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Ok, first of all when you immigrate to the US you pay thousands of dollars in document fees, lawyer fees, processing fees, etc. A signature on a paper that takes 30 seconds to be read does *not* cost the government several thousand dollars, so I would say that nobody lost any tax money on me coming over here. Also, me coming over here provides jobs for thousands of Americans at the department of homeland security and its immigration branch, so ya know, make whatever you will of that.

Second of all, illegal immigrants don't pay property or income taxes. 6 or 5% sales tax is a joke tax, other than that what do they pay? They don't contribute to social security either, that's another one.

Also, your comments obviously didn't bother me because I know better than to get riled up over some retard on the internet, but get your facts straight or shut the fuck up, because the chance of you being 100% native american are really REALLY small, so I doubt you have any right to tell me to go anywhere. Thanks for an entertaining 5 minutes.

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Wow. Try reading something besides an O'reilly book sometime. Unless you respond with "I am a Native American of tribe X"...You have nothing you can say that could redeem that. You might as well leave well enough alone.

Yes, because as we all know those oreilly lovers are always saying republican fucks. So it's okay to single out "mexican fuckholes," just not anyone else? Feel free to stfu.

Ok, first of all when you immigrate to the US you pay thousands of dollars in document fees, lawyer fees, processing fees, etc. A signature on a paper that takes 30 seconds to be read does *not* cost the government several thousand dollars, so I would say that nobody lost any tax money on me coming over here. Also, me coming over here provides jobs for thousands of Americans at the department of homeland security and its immigration branch, so ya know, make whatever you will of that.

Yeah, I think I covered that. You're an idiot if you think that keeping buildings open in numerous states, denying/accepting/dealing with/helping people every day, doesn't cost the government alot more than thousands of dollars. Gee... I wonder how those thousands of americans are paid. You're almost an american yet, not caring enough to find out the bugets unless its on the news. :)

Second of all, illegal immigrants don't pay property or income taxes. 6 or 5% sales tax is a joke tax, other than that what do they pay? They don't contribute to social security either, that's another one.

Blah blah, unlike the average american, they also don't get the benefits of paying taxes(hey, like social security!) so they barely use up any tax money.

Also, your comments obviously didn't bother me because I know better than to get riled up over some retard on the internet, but get your facts straight or shut the fuck up, because the chance of you being 100% native american are really REALLY small, so I doubt you have any right to tell me to go anywhere. Thanks for an entertaining 5 minutes.

You're not the one that bothers me, it was the people who passed the bill that had me annoyed. But, feel free to get your facts straight, since you obviously are on some hidden misconception that it only takes pennies to run an office and have lawyers to deal with other lawyers and [see above]. As for the whole telling you to go back to your country, that was not so obvious sarcasm, hence quoting your line at the end. Yes, the chances of me being so-called "native american" are very small, because they were also wiped out for "national security." Label me not so suprised though, people "like you" always bring up race. hah, okay, that last line was a troll.

Edited by nazareth2
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