doug

So I'm watching the broken...

40 posts in this topic

Bah Ramzi is not quite enough to keep they're show in the green for me. I think he should branch off and kick they're asses! :pissed:

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Whatever happened to 'anything as long as you give back to the community' and stuff like that. :wacko:

I think that their show is not that terrible. Maybe its because it was the fisrt show that I ever saw about computers, or maybe its because I used to like TechTV, i don't know, but I do not think their show is that bad.

For the record, I think they should change the hosts to Sarah and Webb in mini-skirts.

+Cypress

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http://stripesnoop.sourceforge.net/video.html

Read teh second thingy. He has ripped off other things but this is all I remember.

The show was about articles in Make, which stripesnoop was in. He mentions the site&software, provides a link to it in the show notes, but didn't say the name enough so he stole it? Okay.

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I think the tone of his segments says more than what he covered... He said something like "So I was thinking the other day that there's a lot of information hidden away on mag stripes...". That's a little differen than saying "I was browsing through Make and found a cool project on magstripes...". Of course, the current show producers at G4 have really seemed less than credible, it's possible Kevin has been pressured to generate 'original content' at any cost so he may not be entirely to blame.

Will Wheatons experince at G4:

http://slashdot.org/~CleverNickName/journal/20695

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http://stripesnoop.sourceforge.net/video.html

Read teh second thingy.  He has ripped off other things but this is all I remember.

The show was about articles in Make, which stripesnoop was in. He mentions the site&software, provides a link to it in the show notes, but didn't say the name enough so he stole it? Okay.

Actually, at that point in time, it was in 2600. It is in MAKE magazine now.

Also, it is the fact that he opened with the exact wording that Acidus used on his page. Acidus starts off with the line, "The other day I looked in my wallet and wondered..." which is stright from the stripesnoop page! In journalism, (which is what TechTV is supposed to be, right?) that is called plagiarism and it is frowned upon.

For more examples:

:WHAT: My "robots and spiders" article was published in 2600 and Kevin made a segment on it within that month of release without mentioning me or my article or 2600. It could be coincidence, I guess, were that the only example.

:WHAT: xlogicx was on RFA explaining his "stun glove" and posted a video of it on the site and suddenly that was on techtv on kevins arm with the exact same glove, camera battery, and details from xlogicx directions that he posted. Kevin followed those directions and presented it on TV but NO CREDIT was given to xlogicx or anyone else for that matter.

:WHAT: Things that I or my guests mention on the show seem to magically appear on TSS shortly thereafter in general. The same things happened on RFA.

Now don't get me wrong. Some of the topics out there are covered elsewhere. I didn't invent robots.txt nor do I claim to. But I put CREDIT in my articles for my sources! I have the hosts ON MY SHOW to talk about their "inventions" or findings and give CREDIT and shouts to people for their work. All you have to do is give credit where credit is due.

But when you see a pattern, over time, that people material from this site and from some of our friends are consistantly used without giving credit, yes, it gets old. If Kevin would just start giving credit to his sources, it would be fine. I like the idea of having someone in the mass media educating people on kool hacking techniques and ideas. I just think that one person taking credit for it all doesn't do the community any good. He is just taking advantage of us like everyone else.

Apparently hackers don't deserve recognition.

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First, I didn't say Kevin Rose doesn't steal material. I was only saying that the one source cited wasn't theft. To me it makes the guy seem like he's just jumping on the bandwagon of binrev vs kevin rose with no details as to why. As for the intro line, using a single line is far from plagiarism. Besides the original article, stripesnoops site iself gives almost no references to where information is from, i.e. the definitions/standards/glossary. That's the same as kevin rose only making few references, "acidus" is a thief now too? He did give credit by mentioning the name and posting a link to the site. This case wasn't theft, and it's pointless to try and claim it as such.

Edited by nazareth2
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I'm sorry for you that you downloaded all that.

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First, I didn't say Kevin Rose doesn't steal material. I was only saying that the one source cited wasn't theft. To me it makes the guy seem like he's just jumping on the bandwagon of binrev vs kevin rose with no details as to why.

Well, I don't think you can call it theft when it is freely available. It is just bad form to use it without proper cedit, especially in the media.

As for the intro line, using a single line is far from plagiarism.

Well, I dont know about the textbook defintion but using the same opening like is a pretty big deal. What if I started my novel with "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times"? Would that be OK? It is only 1 line after all.

Besides the original article, stripesnoops site iself gives almost no references to where information is from, i.e. the definitions/standards/glossary. That's the same as kevin rose only making few references, "acidus" is a thief now too? He did give credit by mentioning the name and posting a link to the site. This case wasn't theft, and it's pointless to try and claim it as such.

Actually, You might want to re-read his 2600 article which CLEARLY gave credit to Count Zer0 for his work in phrack many years back and the rest of the iformation he explains how he discovered a lot of it and how he went about it. He even has a NSF grant now to continue his research on this topic.

So I am sorry to point out the facts, but Acidus, *did* give credit where credit is due. Kevin Rose didn't give credit to either of them.

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Apparently hackers don't deserve recognition.

My own personal theory at the moment: I wonder if this statement is representative of Kevin, or of G4TechTV. I recall the Geek Love Radio folks mentioning how picky the show staff was about shouts and all, and all the prior Brokens I've seen have been general enough (wardriving? modding your console?).

They're supposed to be making more Brokens, though, so I'll keep an informed eye out (yeah, I'll probably download the things, or at least one of them) and see what happens when the network isn't looking over his shoulder.

(Of course, it's not like Kevin couldn't credit the people on his own blog or something...)

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Well, I don't think you can call it theft when it is freely available.  It is just bad form to use it without proper cedit, especially in the media.

--

Well, I dont know about the textbook defintion but using the same opening like is a pretty big deal.  What if I started my novel with "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times"?  Would that be OK?  It is only 1 line after all.

--

Actually, You might want to re-read his 2600 article which CLEARLY gave credit to Count Zer0 for his work in phrack many years back and the rest of the iformation he explains how he discovered a lot of it and how he went about it.  He even has a NSF grant now to continue his research on this topic.

So I am sorry to point out the facts, but Acidus, *did* give credit where credit is due.  Kevin Rose didn't give credit to either of them.

He did give proper credit in my eyes, mentioning a name and giving a link is proper credit. Because he didnt drop a nickname, that's not giving proper credit?? Wrong.

Books have quoted the line and mentioned the name of the original book, so yes, it would be OK. It would equate to the name of the software and giving a link to the site, once again. You might be right in other "thefts," but you're trying to argue for the wrong one this time.

Actually you might want to check out the stripesnoop site, once again, the original article mention references, but there aren't many on the actual stripesnoop website.

Those aren't facts, acidus gave as much credit as kevin rose did: A name and a link with short details. Kevin Rose mentioned stripe snoop and gave a link. But im just rehashing the same stuff I already said, so I can tell this is going no where.

Edited by nazareth2
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Those aren't facts, acidus gave as much credit as kevin rose did: A name and a link with short details. Kevin Rose mentioned stripe snoop and gave a link. But im just rehashing the same stuff I already said, so I can tell this is going no where.

He mentioned the link to the software. once. He didn't refer to Acidus by name. He also made it appear as though it was all his idea by the nature of the segment. But you are right about this going nowhere. I guess we just have to agree to disagree.

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never mind had my head up ass and responded to the wrong person.

Edited by Uncle Toxie
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thebroken isn't all that bad, i mean... i've seen the 3 eps they have out ... they're well done in a production sense, but not in a technical sense...

I didn't like their wifi segment at all, they use netstumbler with some shitty wifi card, and the only exposure to linux they give (which is a must when it comes to wifi, considering you can freely use rfmon to sniff packets over the air) is knoppix std .. kevin couldn't even install linux on his laptop.... but he's teh 1337!

Then again, i saw the SAME THING when watching HackTV, it looked like they installed fedora right before they went out, and to be honest with you, it just seemed like they really didn't know all too much about linux/kismet (although i could be wrong...) *and the reason you saw kismet pickup sooo many more networks then netstumbler, is because it's snffing packets, and if it recieves even one packet, new network pops up, netstumbler has to be in range to ask if an ap exists, and recieve a response*

No offense stankdog

Oh yeah, i was pissed when i saw them destroy a laptop for the intro ... yeah .. nuff said.

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If he were an independent filmmaker, he'd be what we'd call a "trust fund baby". Trust fund babies don't have to have an actual trust fund, just a shitload of money that just falls into their lap with no actual concern for their talent, so they make really shitty independent films with the best equipment they can spend mommy's/daddy's/uncle's/etc.'s money on. Rose probably borrowed one of TechTV's betacams and editing systems to shoot his show with a couple of his buddies from the various shows to do the filming and editing.

This, of course, gets the broken 0 points, while several million points go to Whitesword, HackTV, DougTV, etc. who had to scrounge up their equipment and do everything themselves.

The Abstruse One

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I very much so agree, but I will say this (open to being flamed)

Although a lot of us don't like it ... at least it's there... (well, we'll see when they're new material comes out....)

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