Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

To host or not to host....


  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1 logan5

logan5

    Hakker addict

  • Agents of the Revolution
  • 534 posts

Posted 22 March 2003 - 11:15 AM

I want to set up a personal website totally disattached from my biz website. I'm faced with two options of where to host it. I REALLY want to host it myself here at home, since I have a G4 running OS X Server and it's more than up to the task. I'm really itchin' to do it that way, for the experience and leaning process, but.....

Ideally I'd like to register a new domain name. My problem is that my ISP (RoadRunner) does not allow hosting sites on a residential account nor do they have the option for using a static IP address with a residential account. I can use a DNS alias to point to the webserver, so that's not really an issue. If I want a static IP address and having a "legal" server, I'd have to bump up to a Business Class acccount which is over $100 a month, and I'd have to pay a monthly fee for the static IP address. :blink:

I *could* just set the site up on my server at home and hope that RoadRunner doesn't notice a spike of bandwidth usage coming from my account. But with my luck, they would pick up on it and it and shut me down....site, account and all. I could also set up a second hosting account with the hosting company where by biz site is hosted...that's only $100 a year. But that means I don't get to play with my server.

So, can anyone give me an idea how much traffic there would have to be before RoadRunner picked up on anything? Does anyone else host their own site on an ISP account that they're not supposed to? Just curious on anyone's experiences in a similar situation.......

#2 hacnslash

hacnslash

    Banisher of n00bs

  • Agents of the Revolution
  • 2,454 posts

Posted 22 March 2003 - 11:21 AM

I've been wanting my own site for a while now, and I have learned up on some html and shit, but I don't want to pay for anything, except maybe a domain name, but I would host it at home. About the traffic that would be required in order for them to pick it up, I have no clue, but they probably would catch up pretty quick.....they prolly have some poor dude sitting there with a cup o coffe all day and night staring at the screen to monitor bandwidth.....

#3 StankDawg

StankDawg

    same old Dawg, no new tricks

  • Moderating Team
  • 8,073 posts
  • Country:
  • Gender:Male

Posted 22 March 2003 - 01:26 PM

well, a lot of ISP block incoming HTTP requests traffic.

I was in the same boat as far as having to get a business account to get a static IP. And with a dunamic IP, even if you sneak it under the radar of the ISP, will be a pain in the ass to maintain b/c when your DHCP address expires (for me every week or two) you have to point the DNS to your new IP address which takes 24 hours to update.

I considered it too much to deal with and simply bought a hosted account. It is not technically my machine, but I can SSH in and control it however i want (well, not exactly) so i can act like i am simply doing remote access to my machine.

#4 BoBB

BoBB

    SUP3R 31337

  • Members
  • 155 posts

Posted 22 March 2003 - 01:42 PM

If you really want to manage your server but want to do it legit you could get a dedicated server, they are kind of pricy but you can host sites for other people for a small fee ;) to help pay for it. I keep seeing a commercial for a place called serverbeach that offers dedicated servers for $99 a month. As far as finding a hosting company that offers OSX servers, you might have some trouble finding a low price like at server beach. But if you know *nix I would imagine its not much different.

#5 nick84

nick84

    Member

  • Agents of the Revolution
  • 1,680 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 22 March 2003 - 02:11 PM

One other thing you could look into (if total control over a server is the issue) is those data warehouse type places, where basically you send / deliver a server to them and it sits on its own IP on their pipe for a monthly fee.

I've got Pipex, they basically let you do what you like, on all their plans. I have the personal one and for £25 a month, I have a "dynamic IP" that has never changed. :voteyes:

#6 logan5

logan5

    Hakker addict

  • Agents of the Revolution
  • 534 posts

Posted 22 March 2003 - 09:02 PM

For whatever reason, RoadRunner doesn't block port 80. And I've been using a DNS alias from No-IP.com. They have an app that if you let it run in the background, will check your Dynamic IP address and send it to No-IP.com if it changes, so if you loose your IP lease, it automatically updates your DNS alias. It only takes about 5 minutes for them to update their DNS info. I've been using it for about 6 months now and it works great. I have an FTP server set up so clients can send me files for projects. I give them the No-IP.com hostname that I made, and they can connect to the server in my room.

I'll probably do a combo of paid hosting and self-hosting. I've been playing with the blog app by MovableType, and have it running on my home server. I'll keep it there and put the main site in the commercial host. It sounds like I'll be better off my doing as much as I can off-site. The monthly rates just don't seem worth it and I don't want to take the chance of having the bandwidth police banging on my door.

#7 Bi0s

Bi0s

    Gibson Hacker

  • Agents of the Revolution
  • 95 posts

Posted 22 March 2003 - 09:36 PM

logan5, I have had 2 websites on my home server. I use dyndns to handle the name deal, since i don't have a static IP.

I was running http://digitalrights.org and http://animeshift.mine.nu
both from my home server. digitalrights.org brings in (on a good day) between 300 and 800 hits a day. I can almost say for sure they will not notice the bandwidth spike. do you run p2p? p2p is the biggest bandwidth hog ever. you'll transfer MUCH more data if you are running p2p than you will just running a webserver.

I use Comcast cable as my provider. they have never said a word about it. and it clearly states "No server of ANY kind" in the TOS. I say go for it. worst they can do is kick you off.

#8 hacnslash

hacnslash

    Banisher of n00bs

  • Agents of the Revolution
  • 2,454 posts

Posted 22 March 2003 - 10:23 PM

BI0s: ok, let me get this straight........so with dyndns I can run my own webpage, with a unique domain name (www.something.com), on a dynamic ip address, all for free, did I get it right?

#9 logan5

logan5

    Hakker addict

  • Agents of the Revolution
  • 534 posts

Posted 23 March 2003 - 07:08 PM

logan5, I have had 2 websites on my home server. I use dyndns to handle the name deal, since i don't have a static IP.

I was running http://digitalrights.org and http://animeshift.mine.nu
both from my home server. digitalrights.org brings in (on a good day) between 300 and 800 hits a day.  I can almost say for sure they will not notice the bandwidth spike. do you run p2p? p2p is the biggest bandwidth hog ever. you'll transfer MUCH more data if you are running p2p than you will just running a webserver.

I use Comcast cable as my provider. they have never said a word about it.  and it clearly states "No server of ANY kind"  in the TOS.  I say go for it. worst they can do is kick you off.

Bi0s: I'm using the free service from no-ip.com for my FTP server, and I also have one with dyndns.org that I've been using to experiemnt with the webserver. Both work well, and the client app that runs on the server makes sure that my Dyamnic IP jives with the DNS alias server. Did you pay for a higher level service for digitalrights.org so you could use you own domain, as oppsed to one from dyndns? And how do you handle your email for the domains? Does it just get sent locally to your server?

300-800 hits a day? That's about the traffic I would expect for my site. I just don't know how much RoadRunner is going to pay attention to the traffic. I'm definately not going to get into p2p, but it's good to have some idea of what someone else is getting for traffic.

hacnslash: no-ip.com and dyndns.org both offer a free DNS alias service. You're limited to specific domains that they offer, but they have lots to choose from, including one of my faves: is-a-geek.com
You set up a hostname using on of their domanis and it points to your IP address. If you run one of their updating clients on the server, it will update the alias on the no-ip.com or dyndns.org server if your dynamic IP address at home changes. It's work well for me the 6 months I've used it. There are higher level pay serveices, but the free ones been working fine for me.

#10 hacnslash

hacnslash

    Banisher of n00bs

  • Agents of the Revolution
  • 2,454 posts

Posted 23 March 2003 - 07:10 PM

thanks man, I'll keep that in mind

#11 Bi0s

Bi0s

    Gibson Hacker

  • Agents of the Revolution
  • 95 posts

Posted 23 March 2003 - 08:34 PM

logan5, I have had 2 websites on my home server. I use dyndns to handle the name deal, since i don't have a static IP.

I was running http://digitalrights.org and http://animeshift.mine.nu
both from my home server. digitalrights.org brings in (on a good day) between 300 and 800 hits a day.  I can almost say for sure they will not notice the bandwidth spike. do you run p2p? p2p is the biggest bandwidth hog ever. you'll transfer MUCH more data if you are running p2p than you will just running a webserver.

I use Comcast cable as my provider. they have never said a word about it.  and it clearly states "No server of ANY kind"  in the TOS.  I say go for it. worst they can do is kick you off.

Bi0s: I'm using the free service from no-ip.com for my FTP server, and I also have one with dyndns.org that I've been using to experiemnt with the webserver. Both work well, and the client app that runs on the server makes sure that my Dyamnic IP jives with the DNS alias server. Did you pay for a higher level service for digitalrights.org so you could use you own domain, as oppsed to one from dyndns? And how do you handle your email for the domains? Does it just get sent locally to your server?

300-800 hits a day? That's about the traffic I would expect for my site. I just don't know how much RoadRunner is going to pay attention to the traffic. I'm definately not going to get into p2p, but it's good to have some idea of what someone else is getting for traffic.

hacnslash: no-ip.com and dyndns.org both offer a free DNS alias service. You're limited to specific domains that they offer, but they have lots to choose from, including one of my faves: is-a-geek.com
You set up a hostname using on of their domanis and it points to your IP address. If you run one of their updating clients on the server, it will update the alias on the no-ip.com or dyndns.org server if your dynamic IP address at home changes. It's work well for me the 6 months I've used it. There are higher level pay serveices, but the free ones been working fine for me.

Ok, I own digitalrights.org. I bought it through a regular registar.
I paid dyndns a 1 time fee of $30. and they send http requests for digitalrights.org right to my server. All i had to do was make dyndns's nameservers, the nameservers for digitalrights.org at my registar. E-mail goes that way too. If the world knows that digitalrights.org is my ip address, then anything someguy@digitalrights.org, will come to my server. as long as I have sendmail up and running it handles all my mail just great.

E-mail also works for the free domains I have at dyndns, like animeshift.mine.nu It all works extremly well.

Also keep in mind, 300-800 hits a day is when I get a major news story, and someone posts it at newsforge.com. those are usually the heavist days. normally, without any major news it may get 25-70 hits a day, and this is for a website that comes up on the very first page at google when you search for digitalrights. Not saying your site won't bring alot of hits, but unless you have something extremly interesting, or a community behind it, you won't have to worry about alot of traffic.

#12 M_from_S

M_from_S

    elite

  • Members
  • 105 posts

Posted 23 March 2003 - 08:35 PM

Bios - can you provide more technical information as to how you set up your home server, i've been meaning to do that and i also have Comcast as a provider so i am interested in seeing how it works for you.

#13 Bi0s

Bi0s

    Gibson Hacker

  • Agents of the Revolution
  • 95 posts

Posted 23 March 2003 - 08:41 PM

get a machine and install linux on it. :D any major distro will do, if you want to build your own packages and all that from scratch, then go for it.

I have a Pentium 1 machine. when i go it it was running at 70mhz, 16 mb of ram( that just won't do)
So I put a 150mhz chip in it, and added ram, i think I have 82mb or something. and it's overclocked to 175mhz :)

Anyway, the easiest and fastes way to do it, Grab a mandrake 9.0 iso, install it, it sets up apache ( for your web pages) and sendmail or postfix, whichever you want to handle mail. and an ftp server for you. all at one. it's easy & simple. And it works GREAT as a router. mine is also set up as a router with 2 nics. I run my cable modem directly into the P1 machine. then run cat5 down to my hub. and my other machines all get dhcp addys from the P1. sharing my cable connection. it's great. if you need any help setting it up, just post it here. I'll try my best.

BTW, due to load, digitalrights.org & animeshift.mine.nu are hosted on rjmatm's home server. it was just easier this way for me, As I needed to take my P1 down for a few days. If you are doing static webpages, (no DB interaction) then a P1 will do fine. if you're running mySQL, and need fast DB interaction go will something a bit more beffeyer, 500mhz will do great for any site. also RAM is a big issue. about 320mb does just great.

#14 Zapperlink

Zapperlink

    "I Hack, therefore, I am"

  • Agents of the Revolution
  • 951 posts
  • Country:
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 24 March 2003 - 11:11 AM

Ah I was a little late for this conversation but most isp's do not really care what your running as long as it doesnt take away from the overall bandwidth from your node. In most ISP cases this is capped anyways. Most documents say no servers cause they cannot provide assistance for third party software... hell half of them dont want you to run linux cause its 'not supported' If you talk to some of the higher up tech supports in a anon form... you will find out the real reasons why your isp doesnt allow it.

#15 nick84

nick84

    Member

  • Agents of the Revolution
  • 1,680 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 March 2003 - 02:02 PM

http://www.zoneedit.com will give you completely free, and very reliable DNS service for upto 5 domains.

#16 bobnino

bobnino

    DDP Fan club member

  • Members
  • 41 posts

Posted 24 March 2003 - 02:17 PM

I have used zoneedit for two years and only had problems cause i suck. It's nice and simple they rock.

#17 M_from_S

M_from_S

    elite

  • Members
  • 105 posts

Posted 24 March 2003 - 03:14 PM

Thanks for the info Bios. Since i just got Mandrake 8.2 thanks to Staples, i'll probably install and setup on that. Since i'm a linux noobie i'm sure i'll have some questions but i'll troubleshoot to the best of my ability. When you say you have your box setup up as a routher with two nics, does one NIC receive the cable modem and the other NIC go out to your hub? Right now i'll only be able to setup on a PIII 500mhz, 128 ram, but i can probably get more ram cheap.

#18 Bi0s

Bi0s

    Gibson Hacker

  • Agents of the Revolution
  • 95 posts

Posted 24 March 2003 - 08:29 PM

Thanks for the info Bios. Since i just got Mandrake 8.2 thanks to Staples, i'll probably install and setup on that. Since i'm a linux noobie i'm sure i'll have some questions but i'll troubleshoot to the best of my ability. When you say you have your box setup up as a routher with two nics, does one NIC receive the cable modem and the other NIC go out to your hub? Right now i'll only be able to setup on a PIII 500mhz, 128 ram, but i can probably get more ram cheap.

that is exactly how mine is set up. it's a headache the first few times, config this, config that... eventually, you have to just get up and walk away for a few hours. but it does work, and most times it's really simple.

if ya need any help, just holla!

#19 logan5

logan5

    Hakker addict

  • Agents of the Revolution
  • 534 posts

Posted 24 March 2003 - 10:17 PM

Bi0s:

How'd you configure your mail server and dyndns alias to handle your email? Did you have muck around with MX records? Their site says you don't need to use an MX record and make it sound easy to set up email but I haven't been able to get it to work. At first the test emails I sent were bouncing back as undeliverable, but now they're not coming back at all. :o

I'm guessing that for digitalrights.org when you set the dyndns nameservers for the domain, that handles the email. But did you do anything special for animeshift.mine.nu

Also, I reread my TOS from RoadRunner. I can't find anything that specifically refers to having a server as being a no-no. It mentions activities that result in "excessive bandwidth", but that's about it. So, I guess I'm gonna go for hosting the site myself, but I'd like to get the email sorted out.

#20 Zapperlink

Zapperlink

    "I Hack, therefore, I am"

  • Agents of the Revolution
  • 951 posts
  • Country:
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 25 March 2003 - 12:01 AM

I personally would suggest www.zoneedit.com for your free uses.




BinRev is hosted by the great people at Lunarpages!