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Should she go?


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#1 dual

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 12:25 AM

Was M_from_S right? Does the RFA spokesmodel take away from the hacking feel of oldksoolphreak?

#2 GodH8sMe

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 12:47 AM

I hate making the first responses to posts that have two clear opinions.

I'm not sure it takes away from the hacking feel, but it sure takes away from the look of the page. Maybe if it was a on a black background and the photoshopping job was a little more... less obvious.

None of us geeks know any girls that would pose for a real shot I'm sure. ;)

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#3 feend

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 01:15 AM

I feel the more beautiful women I can see in my lifetime the better, no complaints here :).

#4 paracord

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 04:47 AM

It just doesn't fit in with the rest of the page.

#5 StankDawg

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 07:40 AM

Stank like hot chix.

#6 bland_inquisitor

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 07:56 AM

:withstupid: :voteyes:

#7 M_from_S

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 11:27 AM

I haven't listened to RFA # 52 yet to see if this was discussed, but i sent an email to Dual voicing my opinions on why the RFA spokeswoman seems inappropriate. He is more than welcome to cut and paste my comments here for all to read.

I had three basic reasons -

- I think the spokeswoman so prominently displayed would be a turn-off to any potential female hackers who came to OldSkoolPhreak to learn.
- It seems to take away from the focus of the page, and distract from the overall quality.
- It just isn't professional. RFA and DDP talk so much about being a safehaven for noobies and for me the spokeswoman seems to counter that "nice inclusive hacker feel" it has going for it.

To me a more apt spokeswoman would be a female TelCo employee climbing a pole or fixing a switch.

#8 GodH8sMe

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 11:44 AM

To me a more apt spokeswoman would be a female TelCo employee climbing a pole or fixing a switch.

Now that is a great idea. Gentlemen, grab your digicams.

#9 StankDawg

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 01:33 PM

I don't really see how the presence of a spokesmodel takes away from something unless you somehow view models as not having a talent. Just because they are a model, that does not mean they cannot also be 31337!

What if I told you that the RFA spokesmodel was actually a former member of DDP who has a degree in object-oriented programming?

#10 GodH8sMe

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 02:22 PM

I'm not saying she's not talented, hot, or wit da mad skillz, I just think that particular picture detracts from the RFA page. No doubt a better, or even more appropriately themed (see: telco chick) photo would add to the RFA front page.

All in all, it doesn't change the content, so it really doesn't matter. I took the question as, and answered solely, based on aesthetics.

Just my $0.02.

#11 M_from_S

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 07:39 PM

I understand that the spokesmodel could both be both "31337 and attractive" but the picture is not emphasizing her skills, just her body and look. And i since i doubt anyone here at the digital dawghouse day job is doing fashion shoots for a mens magazine, we all understand the importance of being respected for what you can do and know, not how you look.

I just think if people want to look at "hot chix" they can go to victoriasecrets.com and if they want quality hacking information they can go to OldSkoolPhreak.com. Some people may think the image is not taking away from anything, but i ask what is the image adding?

#12 hacnslash

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 08:54 PM

ok, maybe someone with mad photoshop skillz can "do" her so she looks more "geeky" (damn I hate that word), I mean come on guys, there is nothing wrong with a chick that looks good (and that may have hax0r skillz), even if she didn't have skillz, what would be so wrong about havin the chick there, I mean if nobody is offended by it, and I dont really see why anybody would be, I dont see any real reson to take her off, well except if someone comes up with a telco chick workin the phon lines

#13 Zapperlink

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 12:08 AM

lol well I can ask quest if they have any female lineladies... that would help us :)

#14 StankDawg

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 08:08 AM

what is wrong with emphasizing her body and look? I appreciate the beauty of the human figure. OldSkoolPhreak.com has many, many artistic pictures and photos, why is that one any different? A beautiful woman is a work of art worthy of admiration. I would agree that is was taking away from the site or content if it was a nasty porno chick with a G-string, or topless with an RFA photoshopped tattoo across her body. That would be different indeed.

If you honestly think that her presence is bringing people to the site just to look at her, I think you are wrong. And more importantly, if they *ARE* coming to the site for that, isn't that a good thing? Maybe people who would not normally visit are now introduced to a new world, a new way of thinking, and a whole new perspective on things. That really is *MY* goal with independant media. Hell, Maybe I need a DDP spokeswoman!!!

#15 JHVH-1

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 02:08 PM

If it was my site I wouldnt keep it up. I like the clean professional no-nonsense approach and think that having some buxom babe spokesmodel is like stooping to the level of the Madison Ave sales people trying to pitch their latest light beer or convenience food.

#16 dual

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 09:16 PM

Exactly. A buxom babe spokesmodel pimping... text files about ANI II and 0wning Kodak Picture Makers??

#17 Bi0s

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Posted 02 March 2003 - 02:11 AM

I think this would make her a little less obvious.

http://hackdot.mine....ldskoollogo.png


http://hackdot.mine....ollogocyber.png

Just my thought. :)

#18 logan5

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Posted 02 March 2003 - 04:01 AM

It just doesn't fit in with the rest of the page.

From a design standpoint, I'd have to agree. Sorry, that's how I'm wired.

But from an ideological standpoint, I totally get dual's idea of poking fun at advertising, so I think she should stay. You take an image that was meant to have one meaning, and you modify it to project a completely different idea and objective. On the surface it may seem like just babe in a tight shirt. But I more or less picked up on the parody (lack of a better word at this time of night). I showed it to my girlfriend and she thought it was funny. She asked me why I don't take her picture to use..... :wub:

But I really think there is no harm in the spokemodel image. As someone who's life is all about art and design, I have real issues with people telling me I can't do something with a design or use a certain image. I also think I'm sensitive to the types of issues that M_from_S brings up. A few years ago I worked for a nasty insurance company (for about 10 minutes) doing their brochures, pocket calendars, adverts....real exciting stuff (not). They had the cheesiest collection of stock photos and clip art I'd ever seen. For this one ad, I picked about the only picture I could find that fit the tone of the ad: a professional looking black woman with a PDA and a briefcase. It fit the ad perfect, and I thought it would be cool to have not only a woman, but a black woman in the ad to break up the usual middle class WASPs that populated the company's adverts. Not 10 mintues after I submitted the proofs to the department head the job was for, my phone rang: "Um....about this ad. It's great and evrything, but we need you to replace the woman. Don't you have any blondes? Our agents like when we use blonde women." I couldn't beleive what I had just heard...especially since it was coming from a woman!

So, with an experience like that behind me, even if I did have a problem with the spokemodel image, I don't think I would ask that it taken down, just cuz I don't like when people do that kind of thing to me.

That being said, I really think it's awesome that someone who had an objection to the picture felt comfortable enough to raise their hand and say something. I really respect that. That also says alot of positive things about this community and the people in it. Too many people keep those feeling to themsleves, and that's not good.

#19 M_from_S

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Posted 03 March 2003 - 07:58 PM

I just want to clarify myself, the picture of the spokeswoman did not offend me, the picture of the spokeswoman on the front page of oldskoolphreak did. I'll explain that by saying i see and deal with the "sex sells" philosophy and all the other crap in the world, all the time, everyday. Certainly having a babe promoting text files is funny, and i laughed when Dual mentioned that in # 52. But when i get home and visit oldskoolphreak and the DDP i feel that i'm somehow escaping all that negative bullshit and i am among people who understand how things should be and don't want to accept how things are. Being here is an escape for me. And that feeling means a lot to me.

I said i might have been overreacting, and i admit i may have, but it was just how i felt. To me it didn't look good from a design perspective and it didn't feel good from a mental perspective. To reply to stankdawg's last post on this, i didn't think her presence was bringing people to the site, i just thought it had potential turn some people away. Certainly, it may attract and expose new viewers to a new perspective, but i was mainly looking at it from the current community.

And logan5 i appreciated your last post tremendously. It was difficult for me to even bring this up because i feel the same was as you - if someone asks me not to do something i'm more likely to want to do it. But i had to get it out and i think some good posts and thoughts came out of it. I am glad that even when people disagreed with me they were still mature and polite. Again it was hard, damn hard, to voice dissent with Stankdawg and Dual whom i view with much respect and admiration.

One last thing, I don't recall who the creator of the piece was and i just want to clarify that the image itself was not offensive. I mean no disrespect. Plus, a little controversy is always good for an artist's career!

#20 StankDawg

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Posted 03 March 2003 - 09:05 PM

hahaha... you should see how much dual and i disagree with each other! :) Don't worry about disagreeing with me, if we all felt them same, what a sad world it would be.

I don't think it distracts, but hey, it isn't really that big of a deal. Plus I think dual wanted to make some minor changes to spice up the site. graphics from other pages were also changed.

We lived without her for a long time, we can live without her again.




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