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Another way to think about it...


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#1 StankDawg

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Posted 05 January 2003 - 02:28 AM

I was just look through some propeganda material that I picked up at some conference. It was a flyer for security classes with a list of software and topics to be covered and credentials received (along with the price and the estimate of potential income in the IT security field after obtaining the certification). The idea struck me (more than usual) about how hakkers actually provide jobs and a whole market for IT security!

I know that fear sells, as we discussed on the show last week. But it just struck me as more ironic than usual that our very presence spawned an entire industry!! Security software, hardware, consulting, classes, training, etc... If all hakkers were to stop tomorrow, what would that do to the numerous people who make their living off of us?

What an incredible irony that hackers, the presumed most destructive people on the planet, actually provide more good things (like jobs and good for the world) than bad things (like damage and destruction).

simply mind boggling. :omfg:

#2 bland_inquisitor

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Posted 05 January 2003 - 02:49 AM

I think about that kind of thing sometimes too. It's like that scene between Zorg and the priest in "the fifth element"

#3 latency

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Posted 05 January 2003 - 10:46 AM

maybe that's the real reason they don't plug all the security holes - people need job security

you're absolutely right about it being propaganda though - drum up fear about this group of malicious rebels who could (and will if you look at them the wrong way! or just for fun because they're lazy teenagers) take down the national infrastructure with the click of a mouse - and boom - people are more than willing to pay for 'protection'

maybe it's really just some huge organized crime syndicate - the script kiddies and blackhats are really just the info-sec people giving 'examples' of exploits to scare companies into paying out the ass for shit they probably wouldn't need if they really understood the technology. <_< (or maybe i should read less conspiracy theories on disinfo.com)

#4 Angel

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Posted 05 January 2003 - 10:35 PM

If all hakkers were to stop tomorrow, what would that do to the numerous people who make their living off of us?


Firstly I'd like to say that I hope such a thing never comes to pass ... That'd mean to me that there was no freedom anywhere on the 'net.

And secondly, if everyone in the world were to hang up their pirate hat at once, I'm sure there would be rumors that we were just waiting for everyone to let down their guard or something ... Security would probably be twice as tight as it is now, at the very least. Compare it to the rent-a-cops at the mall - Nobody's (To my knowledge, anyway) burst in and taken the mall over, but they still wander around, in the hopes that they'll catch the occassional shoplifter.

As an old wise man once said "Without darkness, what can their be to distinguish the light?". I think that most of the h4x0rz here fall into the grey shadows between the two.

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#5 holy_handgrenade

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Posted 07 January 2003 - 02:22 AM

The idea struck me (more than usual) about how hakkers actually provide jobs and a whole market for IT security!


Not to play devils advocate here stank, that's an awesome way to look at things. But, companies would argue that a properly trained security professional costs way too much to keep on staff and they dont do anything they percieve as being productive (no attacks today, the network is still up, the site's still up) they would much rather get rid of them, but the media does sell them the idea that businesses are "targets" of malicious and talented hackers. If they all stopped today, the industry would probably fade away.

But that's like asking a town with 0% crime to fire the police department. It most likely wont happen and 0% break-ins or attacks will just mean the industry gets to show how "effective" they are.

#6 StankDawg

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Posted 07 January 2003 - 10:02 AM

valid point, but in your metaphor I consider a fire department and police department necessary. IT security is not exactly the same.

I am not saying they are unnecessary, just that they overplay everything so much. Have a person to lock the systems down and establish password requirements and other department security policies. Beyond that, it can get into wastefullness.

Do we really need all these conferences? All these classes? Hackers didn't take hacking classes to do what we do. I wish there were classes! anyone who has been to these security conferences can confirm this: They simply sell fear as a product. The sell peace-of-mind. I never see anything groundbreaking or "unhackable" at any of them!




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