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Understanding the Tandem Network


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#21 ThoughtPhreaker

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Posted 01 January 2015 - 12:08 PM

No MCI tandem dial tone here either in Crappylink 5ESS-land; just sits there expecting more digits then goes to local time-out:

 

Yeah, my DMS-100 does that too. Try putting # at the end of the number.

 

Anyway, does the spelling change when you're on a different kind of switch? The DMS-100 offhook tone always stutters when it starts up :).



#22 JmanA9

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Posted 01 January 2015 - 03:41 PM

The DMS100 I grew up on goes straight from dialtone to receiver offhook tone.  There is no stutter.  This is the only switch regardless of type I've used that lacks a recording, and is also the only DMS I've used that does not stutter.


Edited by JmanA9, 01 January 2015 - 03:41 PM.


#23 d3crypt

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Posted 01 January 2015 - 05:06 PM

Are you calling from a phone run by a certain cable company?

TWC :(



#24 JCSwishMan33

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Posted 01 January 2015 - 05:20 PM

 

Are you calling from a phone run by a certain cable company?

TWC :(

 

 

Yep... My TWC service does the same thing.



#25 ThoughtPhreaker

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Posted 03 January 2015 - 12:40 AM

The DMS100 I grew up on goes straight from dialtone to receiver offhook tone.  There is no stutter.  This is the only switch regardless of type I've used that lacks a recording, and is also the only DMS I've used that does not stutter.

 

I seem to remember your switch has that weird sounding reorder after you get disconnected from a call though, right? You should hear the Portland DMSes sometime, though. They don't even give you an off hook tone, they just dump you straight to silence.



#26 scratchytcarrier

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Posted 03 January 2015 - 01:31 AM

Try putting # at the end of the number.

That works.

You should hear the Portland DMSes sometime, though. They don't even give you an off hook tone, they just dump you straight to silence.

Whereas, a bit farther east, the payphones at the Multnomah Falls lodge/restaurant (old GTE/AE fortress-type units) just dump you straight into off-hook signal from the dial tone. No "if you'd like to make a call" recording or anything. I *think* (read: am probably completely wrong) that they are connected on either direct long loops (yikes) or concentrator to the CSLCORXARS0 Nortel RLC, as when I last used a phone in CasLocks about 7-8 years ago it did exactly the same thing.

It's been about as long since I've actually been inside the lodge. Knowing the general attitude of telcos toward payfones these days, even in touristy areas like that, I wouldn't be very surprised if they've all been pulled out by now.

#27 JmanA9

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Posted 03 January 2015 - 05:33 PM

 

The DMS100 I grew up on goes straight from dialtone to receiver offhook tone.  There is no stutter.  This is the only switch regardless of type I've used that lacks a recording, and is also the only DMS I've used that does not stutter.

 

I seem to remember your switch has that weird sounding reorder after you get disconnected from a call though, right? You should hear the Portland DMSes sometime, though. They don't even give you an off hook tone, they just dump you straight to silence.

 

It did the reorder in the second phase of my line's existance.  Originally it played call disconnect tone, then stayed silent.  Phase two played call disconnect tone, then a loud CLUNK, followed by 3 or 4 seconds of silence, then reorder.  If you flashed during that silent interval, you would get a solid reorder tone, and it would stay solid until that interval passed.  Phase three, the current phase, is call disconnect tone, CLUNK, silence.  The other line I have easy access to on that switch goes call disconnect tone, silence.



#28 ThoughtPhreaker

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Posted 03 January 2015 - 08:26 PM

It's been about as long since I've actually been inside the lodge. Knowing the general attitude of telcos toward payfones these days, even in touristy areas like that, I wouldn't be very surprised if they've all been pulled out by now.

 

I think I know the place you're talking about. Is it near the restaurant, and the gift shop with the Toshiba PBX? I was there around Christmas of 2011, and there was still at least one fortress out there :) . It was cold and this particular phone was near a not particularly good smelling bathroom, so I didn't stick around for too long.

 

There's something about that particular telco and shitty payphones. A few years before that, I was out at a park a little further out in that neck of the woods - same host switch, different remote. So on my way out, I find this charge-a-call phone mounted to the side of a small, brick building. And, well, there's no two ways about it. You didn't have to walk in there to realize it was one of those bathrooms with no running water. So I got the number, and promptly took off. As it turns out, this phone would actually answer incoming calls with DTMF. I'll have to see if I can find where I put the number for it.


Edited by ThoughtPhreaker, 03 January 2015 - 08:56 PM.


#29 scratchytcarrier

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 12:39 AM

I think I know the place you're talking about. Is it near the restaurant, and the gift shop with the Toshiba PBX? I was there around Christmas of 2011, and there was still at least one fortress out there. It was cold and this particular phone was near a not particularly good smelling bathroom


Don't know what kind of PBX they have, but this was the fortress upstairs in the restaurant's waiting room, on the other side of the wall to the right of the front desk as you walk in. If the old GTE/Automatic fortress is still downstairs by the bathrooms, then it's the same type as in the restaurant. I think there may have even been another in the waiting room to the left of the doorway as you walk out to leave.

And yeah, though the bathrooms there used to be way worse (hopefully you didn't have to see them for most of the 90s), they still leave a lot to be desired in the way of cleanliness. This may explain why the espresso stand, when it's operating, now does so outside near the snack bar area on the building's east side!

There's something about that particular telco and shitty payphones.


Well I'll tell you, it was once United Telephone turf. That company was once EVERYWHERE in the gorge, from probably Sam Hill's place down to Troutdale. If you can imagine all the horror stories you ever may have read about GTE and U.S. West combined then multiply them by a factor of maybe several hundred thousand, then you'd have a general idea of how life on UnTel was like. (It's really no surprise, then, that in the 80s they were bought out by SPRINT, which subsequently merged with GTE because they were all apparently a match made in heaven.) Shitty telcos and shitty payfones go hand in hand, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were left over from that era.

#30 scratchytcarrier

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 12:30 AM

Anyway, does the spelling change when you're on a different kind of switch? The DMS-100 offhook tone always stutters when it starts up


I think on my EAX line in Gresham they spelled it the same. Back home in United step-land, they had the ESS tones but the off-hook was a high-pitch downward sweep tone that went something like "vweeeep vweeeeeep vweeeeeeeeep vweeeeeeeeeeeep vweeeeeeeeeeeeeeep vweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep", increasing in length for about 2 minutes before starting that cycle over again. It would keep doing that indefinitely until you hung the fone up.

#31 ThoughtPhreaker

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Posted 01 August 2015 - 01:46 PM

Shitty telcos and shitty payfones go hand in hand, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were left over from that era.

Huh, Estacada wasn't always an independent?

Back home in United step-land, they had the ESS tones but the off-hook was a high-pitch downward sweep tone that went something like "vweeeep vweeeeeep vweeeeeeeeep vweeeeeeeeeeeep vweeeeeeeeeeeeeeep vweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep", increasing in length for about 2 minutes before starting that cycle over again. It would keep doing that indefinitely until you hung the fone up.

Huh! Were you served out of a Pentaconta or something? That sounds almost like the one in Evan Doorbell's Asheboro tape.

I think on my EAX line in Gresham they spelled it the same.

Kind of a stark contrast to now, isn't it? I don't think the GTD-5 is even capable of generating an offhook tone. The one there definitely isn't configured to use it. In some places, they have the AIS kick in and generate it; 712-374-1256 . Things must get interesting there when it floods.

The DMS-100 offhook tone always stutters when it starts up

So I take that back, there's actually one case where it actually doesn't. When you three-way, for some reason, all the tones come from a different source - even ringback. I'll have to demonstrate it sometime. In any case, they sound quite different if you're comparing them side by side.

About a week ago, I was talking to a friend about switches, and they said DMS-100s sound boring. I just...I just looked at him :blink: .

#32 scratchytcarrier

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Posted 01 August 2015 - 10:09 PM

Huh! Were you served out of a Pentaconta or something? That sounds almost like the one in Evan Doorbell's Asheboro tape.


Couldn't have been. The Pentaconta was ITT's crossbar system and as far as I know the only class 5 XB-type machines around here were in bigger areas like Portland and Orchards. (Though I'm told VANCWA01 back then was also step, but then Orchards had to service a geographically larger area [eastern Clark County] than incorporated Vancouver.) Most of the United areas in the gorge that Mark Bernay went to in the late 60s were I.I.R.C. WE step and maybe a few XYs around (need to review oregon2 again, I guess), so chances are White Salmon was also a WE or a Stromberg with a nonstandard tone arrangement.

Kind of a stark contrast to now, isn't it?


Couldn't tell you, I haven't made a call on that system since I called mother to tell her I was headed back to Vancouver the day I moved out ~12/13 years ago.

I really must plan a phield trip to Gresham one of these days, any suggestions for payfones there that are reasonably easy to access/record off of?


EDIT ADD: Hood River was NX1. I recall that because my second-grade class took a field trip to that office (then about a year later they cut over to the electronic system, then a couple years later divestiture happened). Why we went across the river and didn't go to our step office is beyond me, but I guess the school district couldn't talk United into doing a tour or something. It was a pretty small office then so there probably wouldn't have been much to see in there anyways.

Edited by scratchytcarrier, 08 August 2015 - 12:38 PM.


#33 ThoughtPhreaker

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 12:59 AM

Most of the United areas in the gorge that Mark Bernay went to in the late 60s were I.I.R.C. WE step and maybe a few XYs around (need to review oregon2 again, I guess), so chances are White Salmon was also a WE or a Stromberg with a nonstandard tone arrangement.

 

Maybe. I don't suppose ITT made real step switches, did they? I've never heard of United using Rotary.

 

 

 

I really must plan a phield trip to Gresham one of these days, any suggestions for payfones there that are reasonably easy to access/record off of?

 

There were a couple of AE-120 fortresses at an Albertson's on Stark. There's also a community college there with Millenniums in the library/quad a block away. If I remember right, there's some more at a Safeway off I-5 in the same neck of the woods. Most MAX stops naturally have Protel COCOTS near them. The stops aren't particularly pleasant places to be (but by no means unsafe), but there's an okay one at the shopping center near the City Hall. There was a fortress in a Borders back when they were still a thing. Chances are, there might be another one in one of the stores.

 

There's at least one more fortress I vaguely remember seeing somewhere close to where Gresham splits off to eastern Portland. I don't remember where exactly, but I think it was a particularly sketchy looking strip mall. Most of the times I went by it, I either knew I had a chance to play with other phones on the switch, or wasn't in a mood to stick around the city, so I never played with it.

 

Anyway, good luck! If you want to compare it to some of the other GTD-5s, there was an ACTS phone at one of the Beaverton libraries a good while back. Tigard/Tualitin/Beaverton/whatever other sprawly GTE cities there are tend to be harder places to find CO-owned payphones, though. If you happen to find yourself near Wilsonville, the Fry's has a fortress near the bathroom. It's served out of a remote off one of the Beaverton 5Es, though.

 

By the way, here's that DMS-100 tone recording if anyone's interested; http://thoughtphreak...rent_tones.flac

 

EDIT: If you don't mind working with a Millennium, the best place to look might be the one at the community college library; the lobby is indoors, and the night I was there, foot traffic wasn't too dense. Just bring a cell phone, and something that works well as a tone dialer. The ex-GTE Millenniums love spoiling all manner of fun with their dialplans, but if you make an incoming call to one, hang up on it, and pick up the phone sometime after it stops ringing but before the phone realizes it isn't there anymore, you can get a dialtone from the switch and make it do whatever the hell you want. Just beware that the phone will hang up if it sees polarity reversal.


Edited by ThoughtPhreaker, 05 August 2015 - 01:46 AM.

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#34 scratchytcarrier

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Posted 08 August 2015 - 12:45 PM

Maybe. I don't suppose ITT made real step switches, did they?


I very vaguely recall hearing an Evan Doorbell demo of an ITT step. But maybe not. Not going to swear to it.

I've never heard of United using Rotary.

That's be interesting to find out. As far as I know rotary was mainly limited to Florida (Evan did a whole series on that) and I think a couple other little independents in the east coast. (Carolina Telephone?) Apparently rotary was pretty exotic in the US, the main power-drive system was panel A.F.A.I.K..

Huh! Were you served out of a Pentaconta or something? That sounds almost like the one in Evan Doorbell's Asheboro tape.

Okay I reviewed Asheboro #1 and yeah, that was how I remember it sounting. WS wasn't a Pentaconta, though.




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