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Wireless APs for restraunt


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#1 nyphonejacks

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 08:08 PM

EDIT- wont let me edit the topic... needs to have WiFi ROAMING!

I will be installing 2 WAPs each in 3 restaurants on this coming sunday...

I think that a single centrally located WAP would be sufficient, but they want 2 APs to ensure complete coverage.

I am not aware of the network topography right now...I know that one of the 3 restaurants just got internet installed today, so it is unlikely they have any LAN set up.

What I was considering was installing netgear N300 or N600 routers because they have two separate SSIDs - and the guest one can be isolated from the LAN to only allow internet access as well as their ability to act as WiFi repeaters (possibly saving me from having to pull a CAT5 to each AP.

Can anyone recommend a better solution?
Better can be defined as either cheaper, or APs that can be powered by PoE so that I only need to pull one cable to each AP.

Current thought was run from the (hopefully) existing router to a LAN port on the first WAP (router) and from another LAN port on that AP to the second AP.

What about roaming between APs?

Can I assign both APs the same SSID... I assume that I would need to have them on different channels.. what channels would be recommended for a set up with 2 WAPS?

This will be done on sunday so I have some time for suggestions.. but I would need time to purchase the needed equipment... preferably from a local NYC vendor...

Edited by nyphonejacks, 04 August 2011 - 08:42 PM.


#2 tekio

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 09:11 PM

I'd recommend using a router that supports ddwrt, another third party firmware with advanced features. I'm not too farmiar with the routers you are looking at. Both tomato, and ddwrt firmware sites have a great listing of supported devices.

Both ddwrt and tomato firmware offer client side isolation. But that is not needed if the network is secured with wpa.

Also, for roaming use wds. It will distribute the wireless network among multie ap's. Roaming between ap's will be done automigically by the client.


Edit:
Sorry if my response was a bit sketchy. I don't know what the objectives for the wireless setup are. Just wanted to point out wds, and third party firmware might be something worth looking into.

Edited by tekio, 04 August 2011 - 09:21 PM.


#3 serrath

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 09:50 PM

Don't break the LAN by router, I know it's much easier, but if you keep it all one network and segment to VLANs by MAC you get a lot more control and range. (Naturally, that's only practical if they're keeping the same company machines on the network.)

#4 nyphonejacks

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 10:11 PM

Don't break the LAN by router, I know it's much easier, but if you keep it all one network and segment to VLANs by MAC you get a lot more control and range. (Naturally, that's only practical if they're keeping the same company machines on the network.)


it is a restaurant so the APs are going to be open for customers... i want the isolation in case they decide to use the same network for the companies LAN..

there are 3 locations, 2 APs at each location - and I have not had a chance to play with DDWRT or Tomato or any of the third party firmwares yet, so i would prefer something that I can configure out of the box, and have all 3 locations completed in a day...

I got turned onto the netgear N300 when I had to replace my router, and did not have enough cash on me for a linksys E2000 or other router that was on the DDWRT list of devices... and I have been very impressed with its stock hardware... but I only have one at my house right now, so I have not been able to play around with the built in repeater functions..

@serrath
It only going to be 1 network, reason i am considering these is because they act as wireless repeaters, and run 2 SSIDs, one being a "guest" network that will only be allowed access out to the internet, and the other would be secured with WPA that will be able to access the LAN as well..

#5 serrath

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 12:35 AM

Ah, gotcha. That's actually a very beautiful solution! Good luck with it! Sounds like you've got it all pretty figured out.

#6 z3r0m0v3m3nt

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 12:19 PM

I was just wanting to add that if you want the SSIDs to be the same and on the same channel you'll need an AP that can be used as a repeater, which if you use a ddwrt compatible router, the ddwrt firmware will allow you to switch the router into a repeater mode. I'm not sure on if you'd want to really have the same SSID for both APs if they were on different channels, not sure if that would have any affects on the customers using it. Hope this helps :)

And for anyone that doesn't know what ddwrt is, their website is www.dd-wrt.com, and if you have a compatible router, it will turn that say $60 router into a $600 router :)

Edited by z3r0m0v3m3nt, 05 August 2011 - 12:22 PM.


#7 nyphonejacks

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 08:39 PM

I was just wanting to add that if you want the SSIDs to be the same and on the same channel you'll need an AP that can be used as a repeater, which if you use a ddwrt compatible router, the ddwrt firmware will allow you to switch the router into a repeater mode. I'm not sure on if you'd want to really have the same SSID for both APs if they were on different channels, not sure if that would have any affects on the customers using it. Hope this helps :)

And for anyone that doesn't know what ddwrt is, their website is www.dd-wrt.com, and if you have a compatible router, it will turn that say $60 router into a $600 router :)


i would really like to see that $600 router that they claim it will turn it into..

if the hardware vendors could sell the routers for $600 they would already be doing so..

not sure why i would need to add third party firmware onto the routers, when the netgear N300 and N600 support repeater mode out of the box and are around $80 a piece.. should be able to handle everything i need for this project with stock firmware...

#8 systems_glitch

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 08:52 PM

i would really like to see that $600 router that they claim it will turn it into..

if the hardware vendors could sell the routers for $600 they would already be doing so..


Yeah, feature set of a $600 router, but you're still stuck with the performance of a $60 SOHO device. ddwrt, et c., are neat upgrades for the home user, but in testing at work we found the hardware to be lacking for what we wanted to do. pfSense + embedded x86 hardware is the way to go if you need $600 router performance on a thinner budget.

#9 nyphonejacks

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 12:20 PM

Purchased 6 Netgear N300 routers WNR2000v3

Spent nearly 5 hours setting up the first pair as a base and repeater at the home/office including over an hour with netgear tech support last night..

spent another 2 hours setting up the other 2 pairs - 2 base and 2 repeaters this morning at the home/office..

I am headed out to start installing them in about an hour..


The documentation for these devices do not tell you how to set up the repeater function at all.. web searches do not yield much results.. and tech support is out of India, so just trying to understand what some of them are saying can be difficult..

I am going to have to tweak some of the settings once the devices are in place - such as I have only set one pair up for wireless isolation - the other 2 pair are going to have to have wireless isolation turned on.. I also will have to set up the WAN side of things when I get there.. hopefully the repeater function will continue to work once every thing is in place... otherwise I am going to have to just pull CAT5 and just make them separate APs..

Will report back the results when everything is done..

#10 serrath

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 02:40 PM

Connect to the frontend, I think it's pretty straightforward from there if it's anything like the Netgear box I played with.

#11 nyphonejacks

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 07:58 PM

Connect to the frontend, I think it's pretty straightforward from there if it's anything like the Netgear box I played with.


only got a chance to install one set...

worked great until the customer decided that they wanted to secure the wireless... once i put security on the wifi i lost access to the repeater... now i only am able to access the base unit and not the repeater... but i left it as is, because the main unit has pretty much full coverage... and I am going to go back to the location and pull a CAT5 so that i can put the other AP in the basement where the office is, so I will just set it up as normal (static IP and DHCP off on the second router) and forget this whole repeater bullshit...

wasted too much time with this.. tech support sucks, documentation sucks.. connection fails when WEP is enabled (which the documentation claims is the only security that is compatible with the repeater function)

do not know why they would need security enabled when wireless isolation is enabled, since they want the WiFi for customers.. but thats what they want, so thats what they get..

#12 serrath

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 10:18 PM

Try explaining to 'em, sometimes they don't know what's best for 'em.

#13 nyphonejacks

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 11:06 PM

Try explaining to 'em, sometimes they don't know what's best for 'em.


think it is more of a difference in opinion from the owner/management, and the store manager.. AFAIK the owner/manager wants WiFi open.. store manager wants security, so that customers do not sit there all day leeching WiFi and not spending money...

going to have to redo the whole thing..might just put the WiFi onto the DSL network upstairs, since the cabling is already in place.. and just leave the basement wifi on the new cable modem..

then i have to see what to do with the other 2 locations..

#14 nyphonejacks

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 11:06 PM

Try explaining to 'em, sometimes they don't know what's best for 'em.


think it is more of a difference in opinion from the owner/management, and the store manager.. AFAIK the owner/manager wants WiFi open.. store manager wants security, so that customers do not sit there all day leeching WiFi and not spending money...

going to have to redo the whole thing..might just put the WiFi onto the DSL network upstairs, since the cabling is already in place.. and just leave the basement wifi on the new cable modem..

then i have to see what to do with the other 2 locations..




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