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Shooting at Virginia Polytechnic -- at least 22 dead


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#21 Rightcoast

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 05:05 PM

Yes. The body count alone shows the guy had at least practiced recently. You can't pick up a gun and hit 30 moving targets because you are crazy and want to. You just can't. People that think it would be easy to hit even one moving target simply haven't tried. Systems_glitch is right about the shooter, or at least I hear the same thing. I hear through the LEO grapevine the bodies show he shot in "groups" (shooting term for placing 2 or 3 rounds in a small area) at the moving targets and had center of mass and headshots throughout. I also hear in this case the shooter had 50 rounds on him. He stopped simply because he was down to a single round.

There is no restriction possible that allows citizens to arm themselves easily and keep the guns out of the hands of criminals. I would argue the restrictions have gone to far already in many states.

In my case I am in FL. I don't even need to see a weapon. Outnumbering me or being a bit larger than me and refusing to give the right answer to leave me alone is enough to earn you a death by lead poisoning around here. Of course the peace of mind of being armed lets me do many things many people would not do. Like say, "sorry for $_, I am huge idiot.". I take an overburden of blame and go overboard on the politeness. It is my duty as an armed individual. Just like it would be my duty to take the guy in VT out, like those guys in ASL did.

Seal, I see what you meant about there only being three deaths in the ASL shootings. That wasn't exactly what I was getting at though. I meant perhaps the only case of a school shooting I know of ending very, very, quickly was the one single case the school did not have a ban in place on firearms for licensed CCW holders. Of course allowing everyone to be armed is a bad thing. Allowing the students who accept the burden of legal concealed carry though? How can that be a bad thing? The guy holding the permit is less capable in school as opposed to a roadside diner or movie theater?

#22 jabzor

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 05:21 PM

I think the solution ought to be purely to work to get the guns out of that bad guy's hands to begin with.

As with cigarettes and alcohol, if somebody is allowed to have a gun and somebody isn't the system is fundamentally flawed from the get go.
Look at machine guns and RPGs, not exactly an abundance of them kicking around the average Toronto street gang; any that are (the Hells Angels were caught with a couple of each), are stolen off military bases or smuggled in from overseas. The public isn't (with few exceptions) allowed to have RPGs or machine guns - low availability helps to keep them out of joe gangstas reach.

A five minute modification to enable full auto, oversized clips, fingerprint resistant grips, file off the serials and a Wallmart special is a suddenly a bangers favourite toy. Just like the 'war on drugs', prohibition doesn't work when the market is flooded; over-sized clips aren't legal but it's not exactly keeping them out of peoples hands. If I, a rather law abiding individual with few ties to organized crime, can obtain full auto handguns in the finish of my choice with serials filed off, extended clips etc without even possessing a restricted weapons permit (not that I would - I have no use for a gun); then really, how hard is it for someone who actually 'goes looking'? This is in Canada mind you with our stricter gun control, which they have really cut back on as of late - I can only imagine if they try to take action in the 'States where handguns are far more common place.

The Canadian gun registry was potentially a step in the right direction, but as most of us well know it continues to be one of the worst Canadian boondoggles; billions wasted with no visible effect on violent crimes - though angry farmers, pissed-off hunters and government level corruption charges abound. I'm still not sure why it's illegal to carry a non-lethal Taser in Canada (they won't issue public carrying licenses nor will they allow them for use outside of law and military personal, possession is a crime) but anybody with a few dollars and a bit of time can get a gun license (a CCW is a big pain and a different story). I'd rather people were issued Tasers for self-defense.. ('but what if your attacker is heavily armoured' - 'well then I guess you are fucked then aren't you, suck it up') :roll: ;)

If somebody is intent on doing something suicidal and deadly (be it crystal meth or shooting up a school), no reasonable amount of metal detectors, security cameras or regulations are going to deter them; especially when the end result is their death.. if they are dying at their own hands what can you threaten them with that they aren't willing to accept, life?

Edited by jabzor, 17 April 2007 - 05:47 PM.


#23 Rightcoast

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 05:34 PM

Well said jabzor. You know what could help? I'll stop harping, since I sound like the evangelical type and I am not. Frankly as long as I can protect myself I don't care who chooses to carry. I really don't.

I just saw this on a gun forum I frequent though. Someone dug up an essay by a student who was prevented from carrying on VT campus during the last scare. We can only wonder if the rule was different and there was a CCW holder in that room what might have happened. It isn't a sure bet that it ends better. The Korean was a good shot.

http://www.roanoke.c...entary/wb/80510

I also saw that a resolution to allow students to carry if they were a CCW holder poetically enough died in committee early yesterday morning on the VA state legislature floor. I'll find a link and put it here.

#24 PurpleJesus

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 07:47 PM

Did you know that there has only been one reported murder with a registered machine gun?? and the guy that did the killing was a cop?? -History Channel.

About hitting moving targets... That's easy... when I take my SKS out I do the 'shell dance' Find a shot-gun shell laying out there and hit the thing and every time it lands on the ground shoot it again. shoot it until you can't see it anymore... 30 rounds in about 35-45 seconds (depending on how high that thing jumps... The trick is... don't tense up your arms... just move the muscles that need to move the aim.... real easy... This is with open sites too. (btw... keep both eyes open you aim quicker that way)

But what is awesome is my friend with his ruger .22. pistol.. that guy is an awesome shot... makes me looks like a kid with a broken BB gun...

#25 jabzor

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 08:41 PM

Did you know that there has only been one reported murder with a registered machine gun?? and the guy that did the killing was a cop??

I'm thinking that stat refers to a machine gun used in a homicide by the person it was registered to, as opposed to registered machine guns used in a homicide in general (look at the number missing off army bases or from private collections that occasionally show up in police raids). Perhaps that was the only conviction they could find?

You have to figure that some somewhere along the line more than one M2 or the likes that was rightfully, lawfully registered to somebody was used unlawfully to mow at least one person down.
I would be more worried about submachine guns; less unweildy and easier to obtain and provide ammunition for - if somebody is using a full on machine gun on you, you *KNOW* you did something wrong.

Chris Rock 'They put $50,000 worth of bullets in his ass..' :P

Edited by jabzor, 17 April 2007 - 11:28 PM.


#26 R3c0n

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 10:26 PM

Rest In Peace...

This type of thing makes me depressed....I don't even wanna say anything....


**edit: Wait....wtf! Alot of the news-stories say that the this korean dude first shot 2 people ..and *2 HOURS* later shot the rest...now my question is.....(provided that this is accurate) WTF was the police/security guards doing during this *2 HOUR* period? eh? Someone explain this to me..


Cho died with the words "Ismail Ax" in red ink on one of his arms, but they were not sure what that meant.


Cryptography challenge anyone?

Edited by R3c0n, 18 April 2007 - 12:00 AM.


#27 Linux

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 12:28 AM

What I believe to be a likely scenario in this shooting:

Cho was involved, but a tool/fall guy. Cho was dissatisified with life in US, depressed he was not fitting in to American Society, etc (this fits with picture media gives us of Cho). While becomming incresingly dissatisfied with American/western life, he was seduced by a radical communist korean or other asian. Seduction to participate in this spree could have been fomented by befriending Cho, and getting him "help" by getting him on SSRIs. For those that don't know, SSRI's have the nasty side effect of making the user homicidal/suicidal when quit abruptly. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris were on these meds, and these side effects have been strongly suspected in playing a role in that shooting. Likewise, there have been big controversy over these site effects with lawsuits, and features on Dateline. The rambings he wrote that we know of so far seem consistent with marxist style rants ("rich kids", "decietful charlatans", etc). Note that VERY little of this note was released, but the media IS reporting that it is NOT a "suicicde note". They MSM would NOT want it to be known that he was a closet budding marxist radical! So, both Cho and the unsub go on spree, and meet up at a point in building for their exit. The unsub has other plans for HIS stealthy exit, and shoots Cho in head, creating an apparent self inflicted gunshot wound. The unsub throws his weapon down. Unsub makes stealthy exit in the ensuing chaos. Unsub may be completely unknown, or may be asian male seen restrained on lawn(tests for powder burns would not show up if he wore gloves he removed). Probably completely unknown. Police control at the scene was apparently very amateurish. Lots of potential for unsub to flee.


Michael Savage is also curios about the idenity of this man and his possible role:
xhttp://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/


If the shooters are coordinated to methodically test the police response and do the gambit shooting at 7:15 to distract police, then a fall guy escape scenario like this is not out of the question.

#28 n3xg3n

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 06:30 AM

Cho died with the words "Ismail Ax" in red ink on one of his arms, but they were not sure what that meant.


Cryptography challenge anyone?


Wasn't that the full name of the andelite in that children's book series the animorphs?

#29 Sensayshun

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 11:13 AM

Cho died with the words "Ismail Ax" in red ink on one of his arms, but they were not sure what that meant.


Cryptography challenge anyone?


Wasn't that the full name of the andelite in that children's book series the animorphs?


Yes it is, used to love those books.
Apparently he did it due to problems with his girlfriend and if anyones interested here's his facebook:
http://vt.facebook.c...3...p=6&l=d1b29
http://vt.facebook.c...0080&id=6202368

Gunman's name is Cho Seung-hui, a 23-year-old English major from South Korea. His name translates into "Beta Male" from what I gathered. He moved to the US under student visa in 1992 and was granted a green card a few years ago.

Dutch news sources say US Police found a note or something which stated:
'Young rich kids, this is because of you blabla, in short, he blamed rich kids for this tragedy...but nothings sure yet i think..'

video: http://www.break.com...l_shooting.html

Some stuff he wrote:
http://news.aol.com/...417135409990001
http://news.aol.com/...417141309990001

Got all of that from random digging so not sure on it's legitimacy, but some guy on another forum I go on was in the same house as him, but they never really saw him much.

#30 Linux

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 11:32 AM

Cho died with the words "Ismail Ax" in red ink on one of his arms, but they were not sure what that meant.


Cryptography challenge anyone?


Wasn't that the full name of the andelite in that children's book series the animorphs?


Yes it is, used to love those books.
Apparently he did it due to problems with his girlfriend and if anyones interested here's his facebook:
http://vt.facebook.c...3...p=6&l=d1b29
http://vt.facebook.c...0080&id=6202368

Gunman's name is Cho Seung-hui, a 23-year-old English major from South Korea. His name translates into "Beta Male" from what I gathered. He moved to the US under student visa in 1992 and was granted a green card a few years ago.

Dutch news sources say US Police found a note or something which stated:
'Young rich kids, this is because of you blabla, in short, he blamed rich kids for this tragedy...but nothings sure yet i think..'

video: http://www.break.com...l_shooting.html

Some stuff he wrote:
http://news.aol.com/...417135409990001
http://news.aol.com/...417141309990001

Got all of that from random digging so not sure on it's legitimacy, but some guy on another forum I go on was in the same house as him, but they never really saw him much.


That facebook is NOT the gunmans!!!! That guy isn't even korean! Get a clue.

#31 Sensayshun

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 11:44 AM

Cho died with the words "Ismail Ax" in red ink on one of his arms, but they were not sure what that meant.


Cryptography challenge anyone?


Wasn't that the full name of the andelite in that children's book series the animorphs?


Yes it is, used to love those books.
Apparently he did it due to problems with his girlfriend and if anyones interested here's his facebook:
http://vt.facebook.c...3...p=6&l=d1b29
http://vt.facebook.c...0080&id=6202368

Gunman's name is Cho Seung-hui, a 23-year-old English major from South Korea. His name translates into "Beta Male" from what I gathered. He moved to the US under student visa in 1992 and was granted a green card a few years ago.

Dutch news sources say US Police found a note or something which stated:
'Young rich kids, this is because of you blabla, in short, he blamed rich kids for this tragedy...but nothings sure yet i think..'

video: http://www.break.com...l_shooting.html

Some stuff he wrote:
http://news.aol.com/...417135409990001
http://news.aol.com/...417141309990001

Got all of that from random digging so not sure on it's legitimacy, but some guy on another forum I go on was in the same house as him, but they never really saw him much.


That facebook is NOT the gunmans!!!! That guy isn't even korean! Get a clue.

I just linked to it didn't say I personally know the bloke and everything about his miserable life. Learn to read.

#32 LUCKY_FUCKIN_CHARMS

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 11:52 AM

Problem there Seal is that you can't put the Genie back in the bottle. Outlawing guns in someplaces keep them out of law abiding citizens hands, but it's much harder to keep them out of the hands of someone willing to break the law.


<sick sense of humor>
33 body count, asian students are overachievers.
</sick sense of humor>

I actually don't advocate the ban of guns. There are places in which it's necessary, and livelihoods dependent upon this weapon for both sport and for financial reasons. I do think though that the problem has to do with lax controls surrounding guns. Such mechanisms don't take guns out of the hands of those that have the proper licenses, etc. What they do is curtail the seemingly unimpeded flow of guns into the hands of those that shouldn't have them. And it isn't a matter of making it harder for the end-point consumer of getting guns - it's the whole dynamic. What's in between the manufacturing, to the receiving of them in the hands of gangs in Toronto. This attitude that a gun, which in the case of self-defense, reacts after someone else pulled a gun or whatever - is the solution to getting the gun out of the bad guy's hands. I think the solution ought to be purely to work to get the guns out of that bad guy's hands to begin with.

what exactly is a bad guy. i mean it sounds like a good idea to take the guns out of the bad guys hands, but when you think about it most of these people are people that have no previous crimminal record, and have never given any indication that they would do such things, i mean look at the colombine shooting, how would you be abel to tell that two highschool kids would snap one day and go on a rampage, look at the guy that sniped all those people from the texas A&M tower way back, he was a regular guy that had even served in the military, noone could have predicted that he would do that. so you cant really take the guns out of the bad guys hands because given the right circumstances any one of us could become one of those bad guys. and even if all firearms were outlawed compleatly it wouldnt stop the really determined guy who has nothing to lose, look at timmothy mcveigh, he didnt fire one bullet to kill all those people. how many people are murdered all the time from stabbings, blunt force trauma, and othe methods, of course it would be hard to go into a school and stab 33 people to death. i guess what im trying to say is that massacres have been going on for thousands of years, even before guns people found ways to wipe out large numbers of other people, and this is just a reality that is never going to change.

#33 Irongeek

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 12:25 PM

Yeah, looks like that face book is not his:

http://www.brisbanet...6696824064.html

#34 Majest|c

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 12:30 PM

well shit it looks like this guy set the bar pretty high with a body count of 33+, looks like im gonna have to strap up and head over to UNLV to see if i can break the record. HAPPY HUNTING!



Why would you even post something like this??? Are you an idiot????

#35 Rightcoast

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 12:44 PM

Yeah, looks like that face book is not his:

http://www.brisbanet...6696824064.html

yeah I read about this poor bastard the day before yesterday. It's really to bad people are *still* passing this guys name around. I bet it lasts a long time. "The Internet - Where facts are passed with a single click before being verified."

The guy has had death threats and every other thing. Which are still happening. What surprises me the most is that people are threatening to kill a person ... that supposedly died in the shooting. People are stupid. People on the Internet are retarded.

#36 LUCKY_FUCKIN_CHARMS

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 01:01 PM

well shit it looks like this guy set the bar pretty high with a body count of 33+, looks like im gonna have to strap up and head over to UNLV to see if i can break the record. HAPPY HUNTING!



Why would you even post something like this??? Are you an idiot????

dont be so emo.
/me hands majest|c some midol.

#37 Aghaster

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 01:42 PM

well shit it looks like this guy set the bar pretty high with a body count of 33+, looks like im gonna have to strap up and head over to UNLV to see if i can break the record. HAPPY HUNTING!



Why would you even post something like this??? Are you an idiot????

dont be so emo.
/me hands majest|c some midol.


I agree with you majestic, such a post is kinda disgusting.

#38 MyNameIsURL

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 01:45 PM

Yeah, completely tasteless.

And it's not even funny.

#39 R3c0n

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 02:41 PM

Oh come on boys....you must learn to appreciate sarcastic humor :P

#40 gloomer

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 02:48 PM

Not when real people die. Not funny.




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