77 replies to this topic

[Alk3]

Programming isn't about what is easier or what is harder. It is about using the tool best fit for the job. I use python and VB. Both are multiplatform and high level. HTML, CSS, XHTML, JS, PHP are very useful, AFTER learning a programming language. If you know how to make a web site, it is good. If you can't do anything other than make a web site, that is bad. Scripting languages, yes, are very powerfull, but aren't if you cant extend the functionality.

IMO.

Alk3

[diablo69]

EDIT by STANKDAWG: NO WAREZ!
2. PIRATED CONTENT / COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL / WAREZ
Do not post or link to pirated software, copyrighted audio files, copyrighted books, and other material to which you do not own redistribution rights. You are allowed to discuss filesharing on the forums and even talk about specific filenames you've seen online, but uploading or linking to such material is not allowed. If you link to a site with free content, then it is your responsibility to ensure that the site is of a reputable nature and not just a distribution point for pirated material. If it appears to the moderating team that your intent in linking to a site is the distribution of pirated content, then you are in violation of this rule.

--Blah, if you need ebooks you have to know where to look and most often the answer is IRC, but the choice is yours and yours alone. Sites to find chanels in IRC you can find with searchirc.com or ircspy.com. The information is there but its what you do with it.

As for "legit" ebooks, I suggest you read Linux: Rute users tutorial and exposition. I will edit this post later with links to other good forums, but so far binrev and hak5 are the best .

Diablo69

[johnny3]

do you know where I can find a free guide to learning C? If so, please tell me. I'm a fan of messing around with computers and would like to step it up a notch with C. So if anyone can tell me, I would appreciate it. Thanks.

[phax]

Ok being a newbie is hard because you tend to do stupid things and mess up. I hope that writing this isn't one of em...

Ok I'm a newbie and I want to be a good hacker. I don't know where to start. Hacking is such a large field that when you first come into the scene you're overwhelmed with information. So could anyone out there help me out with finding a starting point for hacking? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

you could give this ebook a spin http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/

[5imp7y]

depends... you should read alot.

start out by learning some programming... read alot of shizzle and have fun.

learn about tcp/ip and all that stuff. The more you know the better.

the best thing you can do is hang around the forums and try learning from others. ASK QUESTIONS!

remember hacking is an endless journey.

agreed, the best way to learn how to "hack" or "crack" is read. Here are some old and some new tutorials that i found on google:
This is an old one but i like this guys attituded
http://www.catb.org/...cker-howto.html

This one is old as well but nice description
http://www.robson.or...omeahacker.html

Here is a site much like bin rev not as good though
http://www.43things....ngs/view/123903

[deadc0de]

depends... you should read alot.

start out by learning some programming... read alot of shizzle and have fun.

learn about tcp/ip and all that stuff. The more you know the better.

the best thing you can do is hang around the forums and try learning from others. ASK QUESTIONS!

remember hacking is an endless journey.

A hacker isn't even a person that uses a computer. A hacker is one who asks questions, who wonders about something. A real hacker doesn't have to learn about computers. The hacker spirit is that feeling you get when you take something apart and learn about it, then put it back together (working) based on what you learned. Hacking is simply curiosity given a name. It has no defined field.

Learn about what you want. Read books on it, talk to a local guru on it. Join forums about it. Chat about it on IRC.


No one can tell you how to be a hacker. As Mitnick once said (I think), there are people that are born hackers and people that aren't. The people that aren't will never be hackers. You have to have the spirit, no one can tell you how to be one.

[scholarwarrior]

I've been studying HTML,VB, and some SQL, but I found REALbasic better and more cross-platform. I'm gonna try C++ or Java next, but I've heard a few people say C is better. What are the pros and cons of both and would an O'Reilly book be a good starting point?

[deadc0de]

I've been studying HTML,VB, and some SQL, but I found REALbasic better and more cross-platform. I'm gonna try C++ or Java next, but I've heard a few people say C is better. What are the pros and cons of both and would an O'Reilly book be a good starting point?

C and C++ are similar.


Every valid C program is a valid C++ program, however every valid C++ program is not always a valid C program.

C++ is a superset of C. It has better memory management, and is Object Oriented.


C++ is the choice for professional programs right along side ASM.


REALbasic sucks.


Learn C++. You'll benefit from it more.

[scholarwarrior]

Why does REALbasic suck? For what it is it seems every bit as good as VisualBASIC and so far I like it better. Any more input on C vs. C++? How about Java? I should point out right off the bat that I have no interest in .NET programming. I'm just looking for a good cross-platform language to start with that works well. I hear great things about C, C++ and Java for starting.

[deadc0de]

Why does REALbasic suck? For what it is it seems every bit as good as VisualBASIC and so far I like it better. Any more input on C vs. C++? How about Java? I should point out right off the bat that I have no interest in .NET programming. I'm just looking for a good cross-platform language to start with that works well. I hear great things about C, C++ and Java for starting.

VB isn't really that great either. If you choose C you basically choose a outdated but time-hardened language. If you choose C++ you choose a newcomer so to speak, but it's far more powerful. As it is a superset of C. If your looking into cross platform already don't get your hopes up. It takes time. There are platform specific functions and things that you can only call on a windows box, or a linux box. C and C++ really aren't starter languages. Nor is Java. It greatly helps to have a understanding and the mentality of a programmer before starting those. If you have that go ahead.


Cross platform wise I recommend Python. However, keep in mind your code is not natively compiled to a .EXE so you will need a obfuscater or a EXE maker. The EXE maker is a bad choice since EXEs generated from scripts are generally alot more costly memory wise.


My mentality is this: You should never have to pay for a programming language's use. That's why I grew apart from VB. VB requires a special compiler and software to code. Same with delphi I believe. C++ doesn't. However you can optionally buy better software to increase your productivity. BASIC you have to pay for.


Essentially the whole reason BASIC is bad is because it really can't do anything anymore. Back in the day it could do alot. But now there are bigger better languages like C++ that basically clean the floor with BASIC of any flavor. BASIC also teaches poor coding practices. However python on the other hand is strongly typed and teaches you good coding practices and organization. Whatever you do, don't go back to BASIC. It's bad for you, and bad for your programs.

[scholarwarrior]

Thanks for the input. I want to learn something that is flexible enough to be cross-platform and/or enterprise but it mainly used on Linux systems. I only do basic to play around with, and took a class on VisualBASIC because I needed an elective and couldn't fit C++ into my schedule. I know C++ and Java are generally cross-platform and enterprise level as well as a decent starter language. You said C++ isn't good for starters. My level of experience is 2 classes on general logic and flowcharting (covering arrays, loops, etc.) and VisualBASIC as well as some HTML for web design. Is that enough to get into C++ or should I start with something more simple.

I will almost always be programming using a Linux system because I don't like or use Windows. It's just a personal preference and I don't push it on anyone. I would rather stick closer to useful languages for Linux or Macs.

Again, I appreciate all the recommendations and am looking at C++ if it's not too advanced.

[Virtual]

As a noob myself allthough I have been in the hacking and programming scene for a while now I still consider myself a noob, anyway I suggest Python or C.
It should really be created a sticky thread kinda like a FAQ because I see this kind of thread re-opened all the time.

%V%

[WhatChout]

Why does REALbasic suck? For what it is it seems every bit as good as VisualBASIC and so far I like it better. Any more input on C vs. C++? How about Java? I should point out right off the bat that I have no interest in .NET programming. I'm just looking for a good cross-platform language to start with that works well. I hear great things about C, C++ and Java for starting.

VB isn't really that great either. If you choose C you basically choose a outdated but time-hardened language. If you choose C++ you choose a newcomer so to speak, but it's far more powerful.

C++ isn't more "powerful" than any language, it all depends on programming skills. C++ goes more into high-level programming, while C was closer to low-level. Both will suite today's programmer, it only depends on their attitude towards doing certain things.

[iceni]

Is there a certain book or website that ya'll would recommend for learning Python? My friend has Python in a Nutshell Second Edition which he's willing to give me, is this a good book to start learning with?

here are some links for learning python -
http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/
http://swaroopch.inf...ython:Main_Page

this might be the same as the first link - http://greenteapress.com/thinkpython/

[scholarwarrior]

That's what I had always understood. C is more for kernel development and things like that, where C++ is more surface level. I could be wrong but that was always my understanding. I was listening to a podcast with a Linux Kernel Developer and he said C is the language you need to know and that if you know that you can get a job pretty easily as a kernel developer. Again, just going by what he said.

I'm looking for something that'll get me a job that won't require me to work for Microsoft or on .NET, but also give me something to do in my spare time. I've narrowed it to C, C++, Java, and PHP/SQL.

[scholarwarrior]

Thanks for the python links. That looks interesting too.

[NB-robo]

Install/learn Linux,start coding,quit school,think everyone(government) is watching you, but learn and share.
It's short and sweet and to the point. (Don't really quit school, that was a joke)

[scholarwarrior]

I was reading an article by Eric Raymond and he suggested that hackers start by learning a language, and recommends this order - Python, Java, C/C++, Perl, and LISP. I've started on Python and so far it seems very easy to learn. They have GREAT documentation on their site.

[deadc0de]

I was reading an article by Eric Raymond and he suggested that hackers start by learning a language, and recommends this order - Python, Java, C/C++, Perl, and LISP. I've started on Python and so far it seems very easy to learn. They have GREAT documentation on their site.

Like I've said before and i'll say it again. Going from a compiled language to a scripting language is a really bad idea. Nothing beats a compiled language. Period. LISP isn't as great as it's cut out to be and python kicks the crap out of PERL. Java is okay, but not for hacking or really anything beside kickass web apps. It's great cross-platform though.


Go from Python to C++. Once you learn C/C++ you've basically got the strongest language available to you (outside of ASM) under your belt.


But that's just my 2 cents.

[scholarwarrior]

Thanks. I appreciate the 2 cents.