30 replies to this topic

[Apoc]

OK, this time I know its serious. And, I got the heads up all by chance. Alright now here's the story.

For our English class we had to make a video. In the video, one of the characters was Hillary Clinton. Naturally, she died numerous times in the video (Kenny from South Park like). I handed this video in about a week and a half ago and today while getting ready to go to a movie at the mall, I walked through the food court. Our teachers had an in-service today and my English teacher stopped me and told me how killing Hillary Clinton was a federal offense and that the principal came an confiscated the DVD. She also told me that both my group and I was going to be brought into the office on Monday to be talked to by police and school officials.

Now, the scenes where Hillary dies include a cheesy version of her getting hit by a car, a cheesy scene where she gets stabbed, and of course a scene where I shoot a picture of her with various weapons. During this, we took a picture of her face and attached it to a pumpkin and proceeded to shoot it with a shotgun (I think this is what they are really worried about).

What I want to know is what law am I breaking? I mean on TV shows like South Park, etc. make fun of celebrities and they cant have permission from all of them. Basically I want to know what law (if any) am i breaking by making this movie and I want to be able to find it in print somewhere. If there isn't such a law, I want to have a valid case or something to say when they haul me into the office. Please keep in mind this isn't to save just my ass, its also to save my 3 other group members who are ironically the top three students in my class .

Thanks for the help guys.

Oh, and if this is illegal, I am sure they will want to seize my laptop, video camera, and tape, and probably everything else used to create the video. What should I do to make sure everything is safe? I know if they take the laptop there WILL be other incriminating evidence on it.

[riscphree]

killing Hillary Clinton was a federal offense

I'm no lawyer, but what your doing I think is completely legal. Albeit childish.

Of course, killing her in real life is another story

During this, we took a picture of her face and attached it to a pumpkin and proceeded to shoot it with a shotgun (I think this is what they are really worried about).

Again, childish. Yes, they may get the police to talk to you, but they cant do anything.

I'd comply with their whims, aside from giving them your property. But you shouldnt have anything to worry about. Yes, talk to them. No, dont yell. Just explain to them what it was your doing.

[TheLaughingMan]

You have nothin to worry about it was a play and you have the 1st amendment on your side. and since when is killing hilary clinton a federal offense?? lol

[Rightcoast]

Well, she is a former first lady...not sure where the letter of the law falls on that. I'm thinking this is covered by satire 1st amendment case law. You shouldn't be to worried. I would make damn sure there is nothing incriminating on that hardware man. Windows or Linux? At the very least on a Windows PC, delete the data and do a defrag. Overwriting the empty area is a better idea.

Though Kentucky is another story. Hope you don't live there.
http://www.theregist..._zombie_threat/

Edited by Evolve, 23 November 2005 - 08:11 PM.

[hbp]

killing hilary clinton isnt a federal offense. shes not human. geeze.

[Booter]

It isn't a crime, but the difference between South Park and your video is that you had a picture of her, and South Park is animation.

Both are completely legal, but the part of shooting a pumpkin with a shotgun is probally what got their attention, and called the cops. Regardless if you guys are of age to own a shotgun.

[rekenaar]

In Boulder, Colorado, last year there was an issue at a high school where a band performed Bob Dylan's song "Masters of War" during a talent show. According to the media (and it sounds like it was exaggerated), the song ended with a call for President Bush to die. According to the report, threatening the president is a federal crime, so the Secret Service was called to the school to investigate. But, is a former first lady and now senator under the same rights and rules as presidents?

For example, you cannot go into a crowded theater, scream fire, and declare it under the first amendment. The first amendment allows rights, but when promoting violence, you are definitely in a gray area... It sounds like you are not calling for the death of Hillary or even for harm to come to her, but were using it as a satire. You have to be careful of what you say though.

Best of luck.

[Apoc]

Thanks for the support guys...and although you may not mean "childish" as an insult, I certainly took it that way...

I mean, this was a school project and it was just supposed to be kind of out there and stupid...I'm glad you don't go to my school, that would be a downer...


But, that's besides the point. What questions should I be prepared to ask and do I have to surrender my laptop if they ask for it or should I make them get a warrant? I am all for standing up against this because it is complete bullshit if they try and place charges on a high school student for making a "satire" or comedy movie.

[Enigma]

Thanks for the support guys...and although you may not mean "childish" as an insult, I certainly took it that way...

I mean, this was a school project and it was just supposed to be kind of out there and stupid...I'm glad you don't go to my school, that would be a downer...


But, that's besides the point. What questions should I be prepared to ask and do I have to surrender my laptop if they ask for it or should I make them get a warrant? I am all for standing up against this because it is complete bullshit if they try and place charges on a high school student for making a "satire" or comedy movie.

it shouldn't go that far they don't have a case to base any warrent on however i would not press the issue just answer the questions they ask "respectfully" and the whole inccident should go away

[rekenaar]

You will more likely be answering questions, not asking them. Do not consent to anything, especially if you are still a minor. You have rights and should be allowed to exercise them.

Make sure you have an explanation to every scene that Hillary is killed. You need to make sure that it relates to some politic event or is symbolism for something. You need to make this a form of art, not an act of terrorism.

[chaostic]

At the very least ask what law you broke, including title and section numbers.

And then play the idiot, ignorance of the law gets you a long way.

[rekenaar]

At the very least ask what law you broke, including title and section numbers.

And then play the idiot, ignorance of the law gets you a long way.

The answer is Section 879 of Title 18 (http://www.usdoj.gov...e9/crm01532.htm)

"The purpose of this statute is to prohibit threats against former Presidents and other Secret Service protectees not covered by the Presidential threat statute"

The statute questions whether the person knowing and willfully threatens to kill, kidnap, or inflict bodily harm against the protected person. The answer is NO. It sounds like it is a satire. Read the statute and be prepared to go in there fighting. If you read them the statute and can rebut their ignorance, they might just back down. Knowledge is power.

[refurbishment]

At the very least ask what law you broke, including title and section numbers.

And then play the idiot, ignorance of the law gets you a long way.

The answer is Section 879 of Title 18 (http://www.usdoj.gov...e9/crm01532.htm)

"The purpose of this statute is to prohibit threats against former Presidents and other Secret Service protectees not covered by the Presidential threat statute"

The statute questions whether the person knowing and willfully threatens to kill, kidnap, or inflict bodily harm against the protected person. The answer is NO. It sounds like it is a satire. Read the statute and be prepared to go in there fighting. If you read them the statute and can rebut their ignorance, they might just back down. Knowledge is power.

It really depends on the content of the video. According to the law there must be evidence that the, "statement could reasonably be perceived as a threat but would also require some evidence that the maker intended the statement to be a threat. " meaning that they not only have to prove that it could be seen as a threat, but that you also intended for it to be a threat. If the video is obviously meant to be a satire then you'll be fine, but if its just 15 min of you shooting pictures of her full of holes then you may have a problem proving that you just meant it to be a goof.

My advice is to read that section of law and make sure you understand what it says. Then spend some time this weekend sanitizing everything that you don't want them to find should they get a warrant. When you talk to them on Monday don't surrender anything, make them get the legal documents before they take your stuff and if you live with other people (parents, siblings, etc.) make sure they know what is going on and that you don't want them to take your stuff unless they have a warrant. Good luck with this, I don't think you have anything to worry about, but good luck just the same.

[chaostic]

OKay, I think this is getting blown a little out of proportion. If you don't see any SS people there, just nod and smile. Their just trying to scare you and won't be taking anything. Unless you really are threatening a senetor, or are telling others to go kill her, and the SS believe you are, then there is nothing to really worry about. You could have your parents go in with you if you want (I recommend it).

And (Speculating) if the SS really thought this was even a bit credible, wouldn't they have already got a warrent and raided your stuff before you knew you were in trouble, to avoid having evidence that you intended anything removed/erased/damaged?

[Apoc]

Thank you VERY much for posting the law. That is good to know. I see now where there is a law (in a way) against what I did. The movie is clearly a satire (south park like) and I don't think that anyone will take this seriously. After talking it over with knowledgeable family members I have decided to simply answer their questions until they ask for property or anything of the like. If they do so, I will quickly ask for a lawer and refrain from talking. I am assuming at that time they either have to book me or let me go back to class. Am I wrong?

I can go ahead and post the video (or at least the Hillary parts) if you guys want to see what I am talking about. I may wait until I talk to them because I wouldn't want something like that hurting my case. Let me know.

[thej3w]

man i had police at my school for me once. for "auditing and publishing", something like that. a friend of mine made a website that had a students name on it, and they said he put a picture of that student on it cause i had a camera at school the day before and that i gave it to him the pictures. anyways so they tell me and my friend thats its against the law cause what if he was in "protective custody" and someone was able to figure out where he lived and all that.

anyways the police tried like hell to get me to confess to stuff, and i didnt even have anything to do with this website. i think it was just my friend said my name. either way i broke the "law" by having a camera in school and taking pictures of things, and people in public areas. and was suspended for 3 days. fun times.

anyways basically cops will be assholes for the most part, and try to get you into a corner saying you did do that and that it wasnt meant as a joke. so think before you say anything.

[Apoc]

wow, suspended for having a digi cam at school? Now thats harsh. People always have disposable cameras at my school and several carry digi cams...I mean people have cameras on their phones, etc.

LAME. I am still waiting to see what happens. No phone calls or anything so it might not have been brought to the cops yet...who knows.

[EncinoMan]

wow, suspended for having a digi cam at school? Now thats harsh. People always have disposable cameras at my school and several carry digi cams...I mean people have cameras on their phones, etc.

LAME. I am still waiting to see what happens. No phone calls or anything so it might not have been brought to the cops yet...who knows.

Put your laptop in the insulation in your attic. Are your teachers hard core Hillary lovers....? Yea, you know the type, aging hippie beatnik people wishing it was still the 60's. I bet they are just pissed off , probably wont lead to anything.

[P(?)NYB(?)Y]

as long as it was just a parody of hillary clinton, and not the real thing, you are ok!

The supreme court ruled that parody is protected by the 1st amendment in the 80's

[coding_monkey]

I wrote a rather length reply to this, but I've changed my mind.... to summerise:

While I believe your video might be considered a little tasteless and that alone sort of gives the school a right to not let you show it on school grounds, etc, it doesn't give them the right to seize it from you (unless it's on their equipment) and it especially doesn't give them the right to threaten you with the law! That in itself is, I think against the law. You can get in a lot of trouble if you tell someone 'don't do this or you're breaking the law' if you're wrong.

Try calling up a lawyer and getting a free over-the-phone consultation.

Don't let them panic you or make you mad.

Remember: you have a right to free speach, but you don't have a right to be rude to them. Just stay civil and calm and explain your possition and there shouldn't be anything they can do against you. Explain to them it's a parody, not a call for assasination!

If it really hits the fan, get the lawyer involved and then maybe the press but unless the school administration are complete ass hats, it won't go that far.

Edited by coding_monkey, 28 November 2005 - 07:17 AM.