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Is the 'split' of our beloved intarweb here?


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#1 tehbizz

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 03:23 PM

I've been keeping up with the looming threat of the Internet 'split' for a few weeks now as things are getting hotly debated. What could this mean for everyone who uses the web for just about anything these days? It could mean that binrev.com will no longer house our community but could lead to a Chinese dog porn site and other terrible things of the nature.

What is this split that I'm talking about for those of you confused? With the US wanting more control over the Internet itself and ICANN playing patsy, there is a growing faction of mainly EU countries/people/etc who are strongly opposed to the US' continued control of the root zone files for the DNS system. What some want to do is create their own DNS system and their own root servers, and provide an alternate Internet. This network of two separate DNS systems could (and will) cause a clash of resolution and cause any domain name to resolve to anything they want. CNN could now resolve to goatse.cx if these new root files determine such.

Here are some links for reading:

http://www.osnews.co...p?news_id=12663
http://go.theregiste...sis_blog_three/
http://www.infoworld...ldsummit_1.html
http://www.infoworld...isdebate_1.html
http://www.foreignpo...p?story_id=3306
US Reaches Net Detente with UN
http://www.theregist...is_net_control/


I will add more once I find them.

PS: Yes, technically this belongs in LinkZ but wil get more coverage in GH.

EDIT: Added OSNews and The Register.

Edited by tehbizz, 16 November 2005 - 01:55 PM.


#2 j4mes

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 03:48 PM

"Internet governance" and committees are the last things this burgeoning information utopia needs. Heap of shit, hope they have a bad day, etc.

#3 tehbizz

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 03:56 PM

A lot of people are worried over the fact that the US (like China) might start blocking entire TLDs from being accessed or rerouting their requests somewhere else. Some of this scare was instantiated by the US's delaying of the .xxx TLD being created for porn sites.

#4 Rightcoast

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 03:58 PM

I'm not informed enough to have an opinion. I'll be reading those links tehbizz, thanks. My (admittedly) pre conceived idea on this is I can see both sides of the arguement as rational. The US invented this, basically. Daddy gets most say in the house, everyone knows that. Then again, the EU is probably terrified when they see things like ID in schools, the president of our country calling it "valid theory", etc. I suppose I wouldn't want Islamic fundies running the DNS root system, why would they want (perceived) christian ones running it?

#5 Booter

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 04:00 PM

Here's a link that I found. It's a pretty good read.
http://www.foreignpo...p?story_id=3306

I found that link from Here. There is more good information on that site as well.

Edited by Booter, 14 November 2005 - 04:04 PM.


#6 batman24

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 04:15 PM

Move the DNS to the North Pole for the penguins to take care of...
you know the U.S. isn't going to just hand over DNS rights to E.U. any time soon.
the way is see it we're damn if we do, and damn if we don't
any chance the U.N. could step in on this? i doubt it but worth a shot.

EDIT* South Pole

Edited by batman24, 14 November 2005 - 10:30 PM.


#7 tehbizz

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 04:45 PM

Move the DNS to the North Pole for the penguins to take care of...
you know the U.S. isn't going to just hand over DNS rights to E.U. any time soon.
the way is see it we're damn if we do, and damn if we don't
any chance the U.N. could step in on this? i doubt it but worth a shot.

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The UN is sponsoring WSIS. The real worry behind the DNS war isn't about the US "handing over" DNS root zone files, it's about the EU doing it clandestinely and without any approval or advice from any other major body. The EU wants to set up its own DNS system whether ICANN and the US like it or not.

#8 Automaton

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 05:51 PM

Why can't they just split it up into aww and eww: American-Wide-Web and European-Wide-Web ?

#9 mason4300

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 06:49 PM

Sorry for what I said earlier

Edited by mason4300, 16 November 2005 - 07:38 PM.


#10 mason4300

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 06:55 PM

...

Edited by mason4300, 16 November 2005 - 07:39 PM.


#11 chaostic

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 08:40 PM

As far as Im concerned, the Europeans can kiss my fucking ass. The internet was an American invention, and is still an American thing. If some stupid asses across the ocean want their own internet, fine, but they sure as hell shouldnt be allowed to control anything that the U.S. uses.

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I hope you arn't using a Gsm cell phone. Cause if they wanted, tmobile, verizon, and cingular (Att and nextel too I think) would be fucked if they stopped allowing them access to the world band. Ohh, and your a redneck.

#12 SUB-S0NIX

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 09:00 PM

The controversy continues! I remember listening to Beave on the telephreak conference talking about this same subject a while back. From what I remember the UN has already stepped in and tried to negociate, but the US basically told the UN to fuck off and the matter was not negociable. I can't wait to see the out come will be.

#13 Rightcoast

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 09:20 PM

And somebody mentioned earlier that Christians are running the internet. HA! That is a stupid thing to say.

What I said was that the perception could be that Christian fundies run the United States. Explain why you think that would be a stupid thing to say, considering as the perception (key word here, look it up if you must) among the citizens of the world, by and large, is just that. The Internet is not "open to anyone" either. Potentially it could be, but various things including government controls, often rooted in religious values, make that currently not the case. Don't believe me? Take a trip to Iran.

Edit: This was probably off-topic for the most part, I know. I'll read about this when I have a chance and hopefully give an informed opinion on it soon enough.

Edited by Evolve, 14 November 2005 - 09:26 PM.


#14 tehbizz

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 11:45 PM

Why would anyone want that? thats stupid, the whole point of the internet is to be able to connect to the world, the EU bigheads are just a bunch of douches who think they need more power. and God help us if the UN comes into this...And somebody mentioned earlier that Christians are running the internet. HA! That is a stupid thing to say. the internet is open to anyone, and considering what is available on the internet, that alone is proof enough that using the whole "religious control" is a crappy excuse to want control over the internet.

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You obviously lack the capacity to grasp the reality of the subject and instead, just want to sound tough and mean. After reading over your two replies a number of times, I'm not even sure if you know what this thread is really about.

Edited by tehbizz, 15 November 2005 - 10:16 AM.


#15 Automaton

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 04:48 AM

Why can't they just split it up into aww and eww: American-Wide-Web and European-Wide-Web ?

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Why would anyone want that? thats stupid, the whole point of the internet is to be able to connect to the world, the EU bigheads are just a bunch of douches who think they need more power. and God help us if the UN comes into this...And somebody mentioned earlier that Christians are running the internet. HA! That is a stupid thing to say. the internet is open to anyone, and considering what is available on the internet, that alone is proof enough that using the whole "religious control" is a crappy excuse to want control over the internet.

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You obviously lack the capacity to grasp the reality of the subject and instead, just want to sound tough and mean. After reading over your two replies a number of times, I'm not even sure if you know what this thread is really about.

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Anyway, my point was simply that you could have 2 different suffixes. That would mean you could still access all web sites, but different governments would be in control of each. So, if I wanted a website in Europe, it would be at eww.google.com and if I wanted one in America, it would be aww.google.com. That way, noone really loses, as far as I can tell.

And why the hell are you having a go at the Europeans wanting more power? America has been trying to exert it's control over _everything_. And, btw, Britian created the first computer, the first proper train system, the first proper telephone network, and so on ad infinitum. But we aren't stopping you from regulating your own stuff :roll:

#16 sazzer

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 06:36 AM

Anyway, my point was simply that you could have 2 different prefixes. That would mean you could still access all web sites, but different governments would be in control of each. So, if I wanted a website in Europe, it would be at eww.google.com and if I wanted one in America, it would be aww.google.com. That way, noone really loses, as far as I can tell.

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This wouldn't make sense with how DNS works, because it all runs from suffixes to prefixes. Ultimatly, in order to resolve both eww.google.com and aww.google.com you would need to talk to the name server for .com, which passes you on to google.com, which in turn gives you the name for the server your after.

And why the hell are you having a go at the Europeans wanting more power? America has been trying to exert it's control over _everything_. And, btw, Britian created the first computer, the first proper train system, the first proper telephone network, and so on ad infinitum. But we aren't stopping you from regulating your own stuff  :roll:

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From what I understand of what's happening, and what I think is the better way to go about it, it's not about the Europeans wanting more power but rather about us wanting the power to be de-centralized away from America. It should be an international body that controls the Internet, and not a single nation. It just doesn't make sense for a global communications system to be totally goverened by a single nation, instead of a global body.

(This is only my opinion. Don't flame me too much if you disagree :))

#17 latiffs

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 07:16 AM

I think that the Europeans have a good idea. Why not make the internet global? The US are just power-tripping bastards.

#18 EncinoMan

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 12:57 PM

I hope you arn't using a Gsm cell phone. Cause if they wanted, tmobile, verizon, and cingular (Att and nextel too I think) would be fucked if they stopped allowing them access to the world band. Ohh, and your a redneck.

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Not GSM. But TMobile Sucks anyways and so does GSM.


This is not the point. The point is that the EU is not pushing this as much as Iran and China are. Do we really want China to have a say in what WE can and can't see on the internet. Even then, the EU censors thier DNS servers much much more than the US. If you live in Germany or France, you cannot google anything with the word Nazi in it. And we all know about China.

The US has nothing to loose in this situation considering the fact that we already have an independant infrastructure compared to the EU or China ( not even close) . The only people it will hurt is the people who break away. The next time someone in Hong Kong wants to go to Ebay.com, they will get tentacle porn , thats all.

By the way, it looks like the US is winning :here

#19 EncinoMan

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 01:02 PM

I think that the Europeans have a good idea. Why not make the internet global? The US are just power-tripping bastards.

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Why give it to China or the EU. Not only are they powertripping but they also are being a bunch of fascists censoring everything they can get thier hands on.
You make no sense since ICANN runs the root servers and they are multinational.

#20 EncinoMan

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 01:04 PM

Anyway, my point was simply that you could have 2 different prefixes. That would mean you could still access all web sites, but different governments would be in control of each. So, if I wanted a website in Europe, it would be at eww.google.com and if I wanted one in America, it would be aww.google.com. That way, noone really loses, as far as I can tell.

View Post

This wouldn't make sense with how DNS works, because it all runs from suffixes to prefixes. Ultimatly, in order to resolve both eww.google.com and aww.google.com you would need to talk to the name server for .com, which passes you on to google.com, which in turn gives you the name for the server your after.

And why the hell are you having a go at the Europeans wanting more power? America has been trying to exert it's control over _everything_. And, btw, Britian created the first computer, the first proper train system, the first proper telephone network, and so on ad infinitum. But we aren't stopping you from regulating your own stuff  :roll:

View Post

From what I understand of what's happening, and what I think is the better way to go about it, it's not about the Europeans wanting more power but rather about us wanting the power to be de-centralized away from America. It should be an international body that controls the Internet, and not a single nation. It just doesn't make sense for a global communications system to be totally goverened by a single nation, instead of a global body.

(This is only my opinion. Don't flame me too much if you disagree :))

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How is that different than what we have?!?! ANYONE CAN MAKE THIER OWN DNS SERVER. Its Iran and China that want a say in everything. This would not be bad if it wasnt comming from these 2 poor excuses for countries/governments.




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