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#21 unity

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 07:49 AM

You Americans and your confusing payphones. Or maybe it's just confusing forums posts. Either way, I hope someone is going to post something in here to explain this:

When calling a regional long distance call it will go thru an operator trunk, all other calls local and LD will go thru the "Toll gateway", because you don't get the ACTS prompt for local calls. And to be able to get local calls going thru an Operator trunk you would need to call the operator and have them place the call for you however the hybrids don't allow you to call a real operator. And before you say "well you can get by that by dialing 1167 or *67, tell me where so I can see because that shit never works for me to get an operator. I can only get a real op when dialing from real acts phones that has no software involved.
Oh and ** just gives you the dialtone back but what that does is skips the recording after you dialed. You know " thank you for choosing verizown" or any of the other recorded messages played by the software in the phones.


and this:

Numbers called within the LATA either hit ACTS, or for local calls, are places based on ground check.


and this:

  greyarea i think that if you call a number within that CO or maybe close to that CO, that the call gets placed directly instead of through the gateway. That happened to me before. Ever hear of that?


Because all of that is very confusing, coming from Canada, where our payphones are simple. And sentances short. :P

#22 t3st.s3t

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 10:36 AM

i assume that an error 29 or 56 means the phone has been reprogrammed?

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NO those arent the phones were talking about, these are hybrids, smartphones if you most controlled by software and the real CO dialtone cannot dial any numbers other than tollfree and they have services setup with other companies to provied them with service via a toll gateway, they also can go thru operator trunks when placing intralata calls. Their all getting updated anyways remotley so this message doesnt really matter.
late

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i thought that you could do it on both types of phones. my mistake. i did play with some of the smartphones in washington dc. too bad about the update.

#23 Mr Poop

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 02:06 PM

Is that why the payphones at 7-11 used to accept calls and now none of the Verizon hybrid's at 7-11's take incoming calls anymore? They ujsed to ring 4 times, now the modem picks up after one ring.

#24 greyarea

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 06:58 PM

Is that why the payphones at 7-11 used to accept calls and now none of the Verizon hybrid's at 7-11's take incoming calls anymore? They ujsed to ring 4 times, now the modem picks up after one ring.

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Oh my now its getting confusing, yours are Verizon COCOTS and they have a contract with 7-11 to have them installed, however they are the smartphones but not in verizown territory.

#25 greyarea

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 07:02 PM

You Americans and your confusing payphones. Or maybe it's just confusing forums posts. Either way, I hope someone is going to post something in here to explain this:

When calling a regional long distance call it will go thru an operator trunk, all other calls local and LD will go thru the "Toll gateway", because you don't get the ACTS prompt for local calls. And to be able to get local calls going thru an Operator trunk you would need to call the operator and have them place the call for you however the hybrids don't allow you to call a real operator. And before you say "well you can get by that by dialing 1167 or *67, tell me where so I can see because that shit never works for me to get an operator. I can only get a real op when dialing from real acts phones that has no software involved.
Oh and ** just gives you the dialtone back but what that does is skips the recording after you dialed. You know " thank you for choosing verizown" or any of the other recorded messages played by the software in the phones.


and this:

Numbers called within the LATA either hit ACTS, or for local calls, are places based on ground check.


and this:

  greyarea i think that if you call a number within that CO or maybe close to that CO, that the call gets placed directly instead of through the gateway. That happened to me before. Ever hear of that?


Because all of that is very confusing, coming from Canada, where our payphones are simple. And sentances short. :P

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Ok Royal has been working on a damn phile for a while now and he will have it out for you to better understand.
phreaking A!! canada
heh

#26 Mr Poop

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 08:19 PM

Is that why the payphones at 7-11 used to accept calls and now none of the Verizon hybrid's at 7-11's take incoming calls anymore? They ujsed to ring 4 times, now the modem picks up after one ring.

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Oh my now its getting confusing, yours are Verizon COCOTS and they have a contract with 7-11 to have them installed, however they are the smartphones but not in verizown territory.

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Yes, they are COCOTs operated by Verizon. They are usually Automatic Electric 120 housing, running Protel software. Yes, this is SBC territory. The next city over is Verizon land though.

#27 BlackRatchet

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 09:32 PM

Ok Royal has been working on a damn phile for a while now and he will have it out for you to better understand.
phreaking A!! canada
heh

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Royal releasing tha file has been added to my 'signs the apocalypse is near' list.

Nothing personal Royal, but how long have you been working on that? A year? :)

#28 Strom Carlson

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 10:29 PM

Ok Royal has been working on a damn phile for a while now and he will have it out for you to better understand.
phreaking A!! canada
heh

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Royal releasing tha file has been added to my 'signs the apocalypse is near' list.

Nothing personal Royal, but how long have you been working on that? A year? :)

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My theory is that he's been busy translating the Bell System Technical Journal into leet-speak :)

#29 Strom Carlson

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 10:39 PM

OK, because there appears to be MASSIVE CONFUSION about this topic, here's a very basic rundown of the various coin-collection methods used in payphones in the United States. If this information is unclear, ask me for clarification.

DUMB PHONES
Dumb phones are the classic modern payphone; they're operated by the central office and contain no intelligence whatsoever. They tend to be owned and operated by the incumbent local telephone company.

When the minimum deposit is placed into the phone, a relay in the totalizer is tripped. Once the customer has finished dialing, the CO conducts a ground test on the payphone. If the totalizer relay has been tripped, the phone passes the ground test and the call goes through. If the relay has not been tripped, the phone fails the ground test and the call does not go through.

For toll calls, a coin-return is sent to the phone to clear out the coin relay, and the call is switched to a TOPS trunk. The TOPS tandem prompts for a coin deposit. As the customer deposits coins, tones are sent down the line which represent the individual coins; the TOPS equipment totals up the deposit, completes the call, and prompts for more money as time elapses.

SMART PHONES
These are also known as COCOTs. The lines these phones sit on are standard loop-start lines; the CO does no ground test and the call is never handled by TOPS. All call rating, coin collection, coin validation, and so on are handled by electronics and basic computers inside the telephone set itself.

HYBRID PHONES
These phones operate like dumb phones for local calls, yet operate like smart phones for toll calls. They tend to be owned and operated by the incumbent local telephone company.

#30 darkslider

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Posted 01 October 2005 - 12:57 PM

Some COCOTS do handle ACTS signalling. Some Protel models are the perfect example. Here's a Protel PDF http://naicomm.com/provemsg.pdf

"Error 61 Coin Tone Fraud - The phone detected coin tones generated outside the payphone."

Edited by darkslider, 01 October 2005 - 01:01 PM.


#31 Strom Carlson

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Posted 01 October 2005 - 02:09 PM

Some COCOTS do handle ACTS signalling. Some Protel models are the perfect example. Here's a Protel PDF http://naicomm.com/provemsg.pdf

"Error 61 Coin Tone Fraud - The phone detected coin tones generated outside the payphone."

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Yes - there are Protel models designed to function in a mode which emulates a standard ACTS phone, but for signaling purposes, they are actually functionally identical to the standard WECo single-slot.

#32 greyarea

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Posted 01 October 2005 - 11:54 PM

Yo thanks strom for putting that in terms for the people that don't understand whats going on.
late

#33 unity

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 02:04 PM

Thanks Strom, that's what I was figurin'.

Why can't the rest of you folks write like that? I think sometimes you guys purposely obfuscate your sentances to confuse poor fellows like me.

Strom, I'm honestly suprised that what you wrote was all that was said in the sentances I quoted. I really thought there was something cool and amazing goin' on. :S

You need to teach a grammer class.

And Greyarea, it's EH not A! :P Silly rabbit.

#34 Murd0c

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 07:00 PM

Fun fact, the firmware upgrade blocks 10-10-288-0.

#35 Mr Poop

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 10:06 PM

Fun fact, the firmware upgrade blocks 10-10-288-0.

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Lovely. That's just lovely. I thought they had to allow access to the carrier of our choice? :nono:

#36 Strom Carlson

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 11:17 PM

Fun fact, the firmware upgrade blocks 10-10-288-0.

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Lovely. That's just lovely. I thought they had to allow access to the carrier of our choice? :nono:

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We could file an FCC complaint

#37 I-baLL

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 11:38 PM

Fun fact, the firmware upgrade blocks 10-10-288-0.

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Lovely. That's just lovely. I thought they had to allow access to the carrier of our choice? :nono:

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We could file an FCC complaint

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Not if they still allow 10102881 though I'm not sure if they do.

#38 greyarea

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 11:44 PM

Fun fact, the firmware upgrade blocks 10-10-288-0.

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Lovely. That's just lovely. I thought they had to allow access to the carrier of our choice? :nono:

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You can still dial 1-800-CALLATT and 1-800-OPERATOR, so thats not true.
That does suck though.
talking about the same phones but different scenrio:
Its weird though when you go thru the operator trunks for regional longdistance calls and flash the hook, you get a "clah-dunk" and BAM an operator in on your line and they get all confused. Sometimes their like "Sir are you done with the call"
and other times they just disconnect your call silently without annoucing that their on the line. If your not having an intresting conversation. But both the called party and calling party can hear them.
late.

#39 Strom Carlson

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 11:48 PM

Its weird though when you go thru the operator trunks for regional longdistance calls and flash the hook, you get a "clah-dunk" and BAM an operator in on your line and they get all confused. Sometimes their like "Sir are you done with the call"

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That's exactly how ALL TOPS calls are supposed to work; you flash and it brings an operator onto the line. This has been the case for decades now. :)

#40 greyarea

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 11:53 PM

Its weird though when you go thru the operator trunks for regional longdistance calls and flash the hook, you get a "clah-dunk" and BAM an operator in on your line and they get all confused. Sometimes their like "Sir are you done with the call"

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That's exactly how ALL TOPS calls are supposed to work; you flash and it brings an operator onto the line. This has been the case for decades now. :)

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Yeah well I really like it, I never really thought to flash the hook when calling this way. I did however realize the fact that when I was in qwest teritory in AZ that when the called party hung up an operator would come back onto the line.




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